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AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

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Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#251

Post by philsnow »

cschneid wrote: post #231
MenhirMike wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that there are only 2 CUs in the GPU (and fairly low clock speeds), does the architecture matter much? Benchmarks were kinda terrible, and it looks to me that the intent of the built-in GPU is for hardware video encoding or to run it in a home server system, or emergency BIOS and the like. Compared to the desktop CPUs, even the lowest end mobile 8440U has 4 CUs, going up to 12 CUs on the higher end. Or go with…

Yeah, I'm glad they started including built in gpu so there's something there, but beyond booting to a desktop I wouldn't use this graphics for anything else. But if you're just running a screen and compiling rust, that's all you need. Or in my case, running a home server / NAS.

When building a non-APU ryzen machine for homelab use, I ended up buying the very cheapest graphics card I could find that was compatible, a "GeForce GT 710" that was not a beefy card when it was released in 2014. It's.. fine. After getting the system working I passed it through to a win10 VM and I can play non-FPS windows-only steam games over RDP.

So yeah next time I build a machine I'll appreciate having this built in.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#252

Post by vegabook »

tracker1 wrote: post #233
vegabook wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as soon as someone puts 16GB of VRAM next to an SoC (Nvidia, soon), the gaming pc is dead. These hot 'n slow discrete components are fun to decorate with RGB but they're yesterday for _all_ segments.

Show me an SoC that can play Cyberpunk max settings at 4K with RTX features enabled, let alone 8K. dGPU aren't going anywhere for a long while.

The point is that the dGPU will _become_ the PC, and it essentially has been the PC for a while now, as you are essentially proving with your cybperpunk comment.

Nvidia is preparing to SoC-up it's RTX cards with ARM cores and then it's toast for your rig.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#253

Post by ComputerGuru »

Interesting unveil; it seems everyone was expecting more significant architectural changes though they still managed to net a decent IPC improvement.

In light of the "very good but not incredible" generation-over-generation improvement, I guess we can now play the "can you get more performance for less dollars buying used last-gen HEDT or Epyc hardware or with the newest Zen 5 releases?" game (NB: not "value for your dollar" but "actually better performance").

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#254

Post by zigzag312 »

aurareturn wrote: post #217
zigzag312 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some Geekbench 6 workloads and libraries: - Dijkstra's algorithm: not used by vast majority of applications. - Google Gumbo: unmaintained since 2016. - litehtml: not used by any major browser. - Clang: common on HN, but niche for general population. - 3D texture encoding: very niche. - Ray Tracer: a custom ray tracer using Intel Embree lib. That's worse than Cinebench. - Structure from Motion: generates 3D geometry f…

Cinebench R23 was built on Intel Embree. ;) You can cherry pick libraries that Geekbench 6 uses that are old or niche but do they do a good job as proxies? The point of a general CPU benchmark is to predict CPU performance. For that, Geekbench does an outstanding job. [0] [0] https://medium.com/silicon-reimagined/performance-delivered-...

> Cinebench R23 was built on Intel Embree. ;)

Yes, and the renderer is the same as in Cinema 4D which is used by many, while custom ray tracer build for Geekbench is not used outside benchmarking.

The blog post you linked just shows that one synthetic benchmark correlates with another synthetic benchmark. Where do SPEC CPU2006/2017 benchmarks guarantee or specify correlation with real-world performance workloads?

Cinebench fits characteristics of a good benchmark defined by SPEC [1]. It's not a general benchmark, but biased benchmark. It's floating-point intensive. It should do a perfect job of evaluating Cinema 4D rendering performance, a good job as proxy for other floating-point heavy workloads, but a poor job as proxy for other non-floating-point heavy workloads. The thing is, most real world workloads are biased. So, no single-score benchmark result can do an outstanding job of predicting CPU performance for everyone (which is what a general CPU benchmark with a single final score aims to do). They are useful, but limited in their prediction abilities.

[1] https://www.spec.org/cpu2017/Docs/overview.html#Q2

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#255

Post by Delmololo »

irusensei wrote: post #160

I'll probably wait one or two years before getting into anything with DDR5. I've blew some money on an AMD laptop in 2021. At the time it was a monster with decent expansion options: RX 6800m, Ryzen 9 5900HX. I've stuck it with maximum 64GB DDR4 and 2x 4TB psi 3.0 nvme. Runs Linux very well. But now I'm seeing lots of things I'm locked out. Faster ethernet standards, the fun that brings with tons of GPU memory (no US…

Either it was a shitty investment from the beginning or you actually use it very regularly and it would be worth it anyway to slowly thinking about something new.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#256

Post by zamadatix »

simcop2387 wrote: post #166
worthless-trash wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will find that this is the cost of any laptop, any time you buy it there is always new tech around the corner and there isn't much you can do about it.

(disclosure I own a 13in one) Yea closest I see to being better about it is Frame.work laptops, and even then it's not as good a story as desktops, just the best story for upgrading a laptop right now. Other than that buying one and making sure you have at least two thunderbolt (or compatible) ports on separate busses is probably the best you can do since that'd mean two 40Gb/s links for expansion even if it's not po…

The idea of Framework sounds so good but their actual implementation has really been lacking so far, especially when you consider total price of the laptop + upgrades vs just buying cheaper devices whole but more often. E.g. wired Ethernet is a USB C 2.5 Gbps adapter that sticks out of the chasses because it doesn't fit.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#257

Post by CivBase »

faeriechangling wrote: post #250
CivBase wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, a decade ago gaming PCs came with 2GB to 4GB of vRAM. Today's gaming PCs come with 12GB to 20GB of vRAM. Most games don't demand a lot of system memory, so it makes sense that PC gamers would invest in other components. You're also comparing Windows x86 gaming desktops from a decade ago with macOS AppleSilicon base-spec laptops today. Steam's recent hardware survey shows 16GB as the most popular amount of…

Tons of gamers are on 8gb because of mobile GPUs and becuase the only affordable 12gb GPU Nvidia has ever released is the 3060 which is a desktop GPU. I don’t honestly expect 12gb+ to become mainstream until 6000 series.

According to the Steam hardware survey, about 58% of the current-gen GPUs being used (NVIDIA 4000s and AMD 7000s) have 12GB+ of vRAM. I'd argue it's already mainstream - at least among "PC gamers". Obviously there is still plenty of old hardware out there, but I'm specifically focused on what people are buying new today because that's what OP was looking at.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#258

Post by bee_rider »

wtallis wrote: post #29
KingOfCoders wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[If you're a laptop user, scroll down the thread for laptop Rust compile times, M3 Pro looks great] You're misguided. Apple has excellent Notebook CPUs. Apple has great IPC. But AMD and Intel have easily faster CPUs. https://opendata.blender.org/benchmarks/query/?compute_type=... Blender Benchmark AMD Ryzen 9 7950X (16 core) 560.8 Apple M2 Ultra (24 cores) 501.82 Apple M3 Max (12 cores) 408.27 Apple M3 Pro 226.46 App…

> Blender Benchmark Maybe use a benchmark that actually makes sense for CPUs, rather than something that's always much faster on a GPU (eg. M3 Pro as any sane user would use it for Blender is 2.7x the performance of a Ryzen 7950X, not 0.4x). > Apple Mac mini, 32gb, M2 Ultra, 2TB SSD, $2600 Not a real thing. You meant M2 Pro, because the Max and Ultra chips aren't available in the Mac mini.

Is blender 100% GPU now? Last time I used it, there were multiple renderers available, and it wasn’t a 100% win to switch to GPU. IIRC the cpu did better in ray tracing(?). This was a couple years ago though so things may have changed or I might not be recalling correctly.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#259

Post by GordonS »

Voultapher wrote: post #5
tripdout wrote: post #2

7900X equivalent 9900X has 120W TDP as opposed to 170W. Is it that much more power efficient?

That 170W TDP was chasing the benchmark crown. The 7950X lost <5% MT perf when run at 120W.

I wonder then if the 9900X could be undervolted without losing more than a few percentage points of speed?

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#260

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

BeeOnRope wrote: post #180
adrian_b wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison done by the AMD announcement and by everyone else compares the Zen 5 cores, which will be used both in their laptop/desktop products and in their Turin server CPUs, with the Intel Emerald Rapids and the future Granite Rapids server CPUs. As you say, Intel has abandoned the use of the full AVX-512 instruction set in their laptop/desktop products and in some of their server products. At the end of 2025,…

> of the high-performance programs that is possible in 512-bit AVX-512 due to the equality between register size and cache line size, so the consumer Intel CPUs will remain a worse target for the implementation of high-performance algorithms. Can you elaborate here? I love full-width AVX-512 as much as the next SIMD nerd, but I rarely considered the alignment of the cache line and vector width one of the particularly…

it does seem plausible. Apple has gone to 128 bit cache line.
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