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One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

bbc.com

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Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#251

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

coldtea wrote: post #9
PaulRobinson wrote: post #8

Tragic, horrid and going to make a lot of nervous flyers more nervous. I've been through some pretty heavy turbulence in my time, but thankfully nothing this severe. I've been through enough though to know that a lot of people don't take it very seriously. I've been on flights with screaming passengers, and _very_ quiet British Marines, both in reaction to some pretty nasty air, and I'm always surprised that turbulen…

> There's a reason why you're advised to keep your seatbelt fastened when seated. I simply don't understand some cabins that have cocktail bars in them - are you absolutely crazy? No, just not pusillanimous about it, given the odds.

Pusillanimous: when Monty Python taught me a new word :-)

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#252

Post by bojan »

yurishimo wrote: post #240
vsnf wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This behavior is reflected in car attitudes too. Many Japanese drive with a detached seatbelt. Not even the presence of children changes this calculus.

Most Dutch people don’t wear a helmet when riding a bicycle. As e-bikes are becoming more popular, some older people are opting to wear a helmet since the speed is higher, but many still don’t. It’s not uncommon to see a parent riding around with a kid attached to the bike and neither are wearing a helmet. I think it is kind of a cultural thing as well as convenience. If you ride a bike to the station to catch a trai…

Pricesely this, yes. And for the kids, an average trip to school takes like 5-10 minutes, hassling with three helmets (mine and of two kids) takes almost as long. And then I have to carry three helmets if I want to drop by to the supermarket after getting them to school.

The bicycle seats for kids are designed in such a way that the only real danger of a head being hit is in the frontal collision, or in a really forceful side one. The design of Dutch streets makes the chance of either happening small enough that the helmets are widely seen as not worth it.

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#253

Post by filleduchaos »

banish-m4 wrote: post #221
filleduchaos wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a well-known thing. Turbulence injuries come from being launched into the ceiling of the plane due to negative Gs. It's why the seatbelt is important - to restrain you to your seat.

Well, duh. I just thought the interior fittings were more robust. I guess even they got the modern plastic "Lexus" treatment.

I think you might be severely underestimating the forces involved, as well as confusing "strong" engineering for safe engineering.

A ceiling that buckles when a human slams into it at an acceleration of -4g or more is a ceiling that doesn't severely fracture their skull and possibly kill them instantly.

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#255

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS »

xenadu02 wrote: post #238
darkwater wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then you should hurt your butt, not your head as described in the article, no? I still think that if you get your head against the oxygen masks it's because the plane accelerated a lot downwards.

When the airplane experiences high negative G you get propelled upwards at 9.8m/s/s times the negative G. A -1G force cancels the constant +1G force gravity exerts resulting in free-fall or floating. If the negative G force is higher than 1G you are now accelerating upwards relative to the fuselage. A -2.5G event "pulls" you upward 1.5x harder than falling and you absolutely can die from falling down due to head inju…

In other words, the people didn't "fly up" and hit their heads, the plane fell on top of them.

Granted they were technically falling, too, but at a slower rate because the force that pushed the plane down - turbulence - acted directly on the plane, but the plane shielded the passengers from the direct effect of the turbulence. Thus the air did not push them down at the same rate that it pushed the plane down onto them.

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#256

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS »

manojlds wrote: post #181
IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #59

I'll be the first to admit that I held conflicting views: For one, I never thought someone could die from turbulence (besides a medical condition such as heart risk). At the same time, I'm sure certain falls/impacts are quite lethal even in very short distances. Yet, i dont understand how turbulence makes a plane fall 6000 ft in 3min, unless the automated (turbulence?) avoidance system engaged and caused the injury i…

It looks like the 73-year old did die of heart attack.

Source?

Edit: nm, another post has it

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#257

Post by nusl »

septic-liqueur wrote: post #249

Turbulence is my biggest fear during flying. I always imagine the plane just snapping or something else starting to malfunction due to the turbulence. I know it's not supposed to happen, but there's a slight chance....

Yes, though the planes are also designed with this in mind and have tolerances to compensate and handle it.

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#258

Post by Affric »

Intermernet wrote: post #98
sva_ wrote: post #61

> "So I started bracing for what was happening, and very suddenly there was a very dramatic drop so everyone seated and not wearing seatbelt was launched immediately into the ceiling," 28-year-old student Dzafran Azmir said. > "Some people hit their heads on the baggage cabins overhead and dented it, they hit the places where lights and masks are and broke straight through it." That's why I try to keep my seatbelt on…

I recently flew ANA and they advise all passengers to keep their seatbelts on at all times when seated. It seems like simple advice. I do the same thing when I'm driving. I don't find it uncomfortable in the slightest, even sleeping. Maybe others have a different experience, but turbulence isn't that rare. I've had serious turbulence on many flights. Probably the worst was final approach / landing in Frankfurt with p…

Yep. Always have my seatbelt on. I am used to it.

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#259

Post by w0z_ »

scoofy wrote: post #235
ghaff wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loose seatbelts are probably fine. That’s what I do. Presumably that keeps me from getting launched into the ceiling. A lap belt is a compromise anyway. Aircraft crew use more as do car drivers for that matter.

Right but what's the point? If the belt is on very loose, you give your body a chance to gain momentum, which will be redirected when the seat belt catches you, which would lead to serious injury. The belt doesn't need to be on tight, but it should be relatively snug. It's just one of those things that is trivial to do, with a very, very low probability to save you from injury, but costs nothing, so why not...

You're going to the very extreme end of what he meant by "loose"...

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#260

Post by et-al »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #218
RestlessMind wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that seems very Japanese in a weird way - they might be trusting themselves and everyone else to follow rules precisely, thus avoiding all the accidents and obviating the need for seatbelts.

Is driving actually kind of easy in Japan for this reason? I’ve never had a car while there. It’s wild how different Japan and China are despite being neighbors. I can’t think of a European neighbor pair that is so different.

One is an island nation that's been fairly open, the other had waves of isolationism, famines, and only recently opened up their markets in the late 80s. Private car ownership was not on the table until probably 25 years ago.

But to play your game, Switzerland and Italy, especially southern Italy, are very different.

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