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Dear Europe, please wake up

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Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#251

Post by bsder »

occz wrote: post #188
jandrese wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to admit I raised an eyebrow at Greece being near the top of the list. That's going against stereotype hard.

Stereotypes aren't necessarily true. There's for example a stereotype about Mexicans being lazy, but anyone who's actually taken the time to look at the statistics - and gotten to know any number of Mexicans, for that matter - knows that to be a complete fabrication.

I seem to remember that one issue was that warmer climates had higher infestations of hookworms which manifests in ways that reinforce a "lazy and stupid" sterotype.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#252

Post by squigz »

triceratops wrote: post #221
mountainb wrote: post #145

The EU does not have an equivalent of US commerce clause jurisprudence (which descends from Hamilton's original economic design to prevent exactly the kinds of problems that this author is complaining about). The EU does have an equivalent to the supremacy clause, but due to cultural and political forces it cannot have the same effect that it has in the US. Another major factor that makes the US more competitive is o…

I found myself nodding at the first 2 paragraphs, then got serious whiplash on paragraph 3. That was wild.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. That was unexpected.

Is GP joking I hope?

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#253

Post by wrboyce »

29athrowaway wrote: post #55

Europe needs its own tech megacorps. Their own OS, office suite, cloud provider, source control, social media, mobile devices, etc. The creates the abundance of data required to win at AI. Because Europe doesn't own its own data, they lack the data necessary to win in AI against others that do. Creating a EU startup ecosystem without the megacorps is just feeding the American megacorps more because those startups wil…

> Europe needs … their own OS

Linux?

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#254

Post by EasyMark »

snowpid wrote: post #218
seydor wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans live the way they do because of unbelievable amounts of wealth and innovation accumulated through centuries which is being spent. None of that is guaranteed in a failing , aging europe. It's not food-safe, nor energy-safe. Not thinking about a sustainable future is fatally myopic

I disagree. Basically all Europe were in shambles 80 years ago, Communism was destroyed only 30 years ago. We still 4 wars in the last 30 years in Europe. The accumulated wealth is long gone.

And Putin is threatening another major war in Europe with NATO, it's pretty crazy to assume that Europe has not issues happening or has gotten complacent just because they don't want to work 50 hours a week.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#255

Post by bradlys »

62951413 wrote: post #205
subsubzero wrote: post #157

So many things here. Lets talk pay, US tech workers, lets just say Sr SWE and up, and lets look at SF as the author uses this as a focal point. Salary is roughly $300-400k a year(in SF FANGish company), in Europe or England its about half of that, and maybe even less. I know as I have family I married into that points out this fact, the best workers all go over to the US and make large salaries over there at US tech…

Let's talk about you growing older. The closer you're to 50 the more difficult it gets to find a new job. You get laid off in a major downsizing round. Your COBRA healthcare plan is $2K+/month which incidentally is comparable to your 1-bedroom apartment rent. It could take you a few months to find the next job. Or longer, people discuss it on this very site every other week. The FAANGs and the capital gains are real…

If you’ve followed the money train, you should practically be fatFIRE by 50 assuming you’re in SF. I can imagine it being difficult if you’re single income but dual income tech workers in SF should be easy FIRE territory for a 50 something.

It’s really hard to imagine a scenario where someone is reaching 50+, can’t find a job due to ageism, and has anyone but themselves to blame. I have friends who don’t own property in SF, rented their whole lives, and haven’t accumulated millions in NW. They only have themselves to blame because they kept trying to do their own startups. They had 7 figure comp when they were at established tech companies but would keep leaving to start their own thing. They could easily be close to retirement but they’re gonna be working past 65 at the pace they’re going now.

The only thing they regret is that none of their startups they founded have made them rich.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#256

Post by andersa »

ffsm8 wrote: post #158

As a fellow European that started skimming the article halfway through as I was facepalming too hard: did he never look at the raw numbers? If you target the US market the pie is basically 10x times what it would be if you targeted your country in Europe. Realistically speaking, Europe ain't got a chance unless we abolish our countries entirely, creating a single market. And that's not gonna happen. Ever.

The alternative is slowly fading into irrelevance.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#257

Post by andersa »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #146
29athrowaway wrote: post #55

Europe needs its own tech megacorps. Their own OS, office suite, cloud provider, source control, social media, mobile devices, etc. The creates the abundance of data required to win at AI. Because Europe doesn't own its own data, they lack the data necessary to win in AI against others that do. Creating a EU startup ecosystem without the megacorps is just feeding the American megacorps more because those startups wil…

If you want people to start using EU cop instead of US corps, then the service provided needs to be matching what's offered by Amazon. Google and so on. The problem is that the EU does not put enough money for these systems to be started in the first place. Look at this snippet: The European Commission approved on Tuesday up to 1.2 billion euros ($1.30 billion) of state aid for a European cloud computing project to t…

Lol, $1 billion. That's less than Meta spent on GPUs for fun for Zuck's pet project. Needs to be 100 times higher to be useful.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#258

Post by Muromec »

xp84 wrote: post #164
fullshark wrote: post #16

> In SF you frequently hear big tech people talking how hard they work, while they queue 30mins for a coffee at Blue Bottle and chitchatting there for another 20mins. God people still haven't figured out how knowledge work and work ethic there is illustrated when you are giving your brain to your employer instead of your body. Some of these workers are thinking about work problems literally 24 hours a day, and come u…

I don't believe it's black and white. Sure, some workplaces are too demanding, but in other cases, people are taking advantage. My observations (in the USA) over the past few years suggest that most people who were hired around 2019-2021 when hiring technical staff was super difficult, have an absolutely bonkers level of entitlement. People are making 200k a year, and bristle at the implication that it's not acceptab…

>That's the work ethic. I'm not saying it's everyone, of course, but it's a common attitude

So, why are those people not being fired? Because it sounds like they are judging their contribution to their employer and their own bargaining power exactly right if they are not being fired.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#259

Post by andersa »

brodo wrote: post #134

My pet theory on why tech in Europe is worse than in the US is the lack of career opportunities for software devs. If I, as a developer, want to make more than 100k a year here in Germany, the easiest thing is to work remotely for a US company. There is no corporate ladder for devs. If there is one, it isn't very long. Hungry, young devs move into management or consulting. So, there is no incentive to get better as a…

I'm currently in Germany working remotely for a US company as you described. They pay around 200k pre tax. There are real growth options from there.

I've never seen a single competing offer from a German company, not even at the highest level. A local career here as a developer is a dead end.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#260

Post by Muromec »

Dig1t wrote: post #239
Muromec wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If I take the relocation I get an automatic 50% salary cut It's obvious that cashflow will suffer. The question is whether you will like living in Paris on the money that's left. There is a good chance you would and will also discover where the hidden taxes of living in US were. Or not.

It’s vastly cheaper to live in the US, I talk to my Paris coworkers quite a lot and they pay more for just about everything except maybe childcare. My health insurance is free in the US, covered by my employer, my tax rate is 35% whereas I would be taxed at 45% in Paris. Gas costs more in Paris, car registration and taxes cost more, just buying a car in the first place costs way more, not to mention the car I own is…

>Forget taking my truck to the lake with the kayaks and forget hauling materials to build my house.

This is totally not how you move to Paris.

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