Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

statnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 263 posts

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#251

Post by Affric »

3l3ktr4 wrote: post #81

It's crazy to see people denying that (meat) factory farming is a problem. You'd expect most of the public of this website to be rationalists in one way or another. Of course factory farming is an aggravating factor for the spread of diseases. Of course we can thrive with less meat consumption or none. How is that even a question?

> “Of course”

Those words require “as proven by” and then the sentence that follows.

The claims you make are so trivial as to almost be tautological. You make no quantitive claims except “none” for meat consumption. The most extreme possible position.

Rationalists put forward measured testable arguments that can be defeated by fair reason. Rationalists don’t frame the arguments for what they oppose in purely negative terms and what they support in purely positive terms.

Factory farming has had massive benefits to the health and well-being of humans on the planet. It is undeniably cruel. No meat consumption for many would lead to mental and physical health issues for many. It would also end some of humanity’s cruelest practices.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#252

Post by anArbitraryOne »

bluGill wrote: post #134
anArbitraryOne wrote: post #11

Let's keep livestock in poor conditions and give them antibiotics to survive, then complain about the consequences

This is about dairy. If there are any detectable antibiotics in the milk they have to dump it all. When the vet prescribes antibiotics that cow is isolated in a hospital for a month until the milk contains no traces of antibiotics. They only do this when needed as it costs a lot of money to care for a sick cow. You might be thinking about beef cattle which are treated different from dairy cows. Though even then antib…

It's nice of you to say that but I really wasn't thinking much at all

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#253

Post by lamontcg »

3l3ktr4 wrote: post #81

It's crazy to see people denying that (meat) factory farming is a problem. You'd expect most of the public of this website to be rationalists in one way or another. Of course factory farming is an aggravating factor for the spread of diseases. Of course we can thrive with less meat consumption or none. How is that even a question?

Wonder how many people here who are reacting to what you posted negatively are also convinced about the lab leak theory of SARS-CoV-2 origins...

People get worried about serial passage "gain of function" experiments in a lab with a dozen lab animals being involved. Meanwhile in farming a virus can get passed through millions and millions of animals in nice compact bioreactors.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#254

Post by refurb »

snakeyjake wrote: post #223
refurb wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. There are several examples of oral vaccines.

Even oral vaccines containing live viruses see the virus being destroyed in minutes by stomach acid. Rapid inactivation of rotaviruses by exposure to acid buffer or acidic gastric juice: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2999315/ The annihilation of the virus and the absorption of all of the wreckage is what gives humans immunity without actually becoming infected. Generally speaking, the only viruses that make it past…

> The annihilation of the virus and the absorption of all of the wreckage is what gives humans immunity without actually becoming infected.

Do you have a source for that claim? "Wreckage" would be sufficiently different from the live virus to not elicit an immune response.

The live polio vaccine infects the person with an attenuated virus. The target of the polio virus is intestinal epithelial cells.

There are hundreds of diseases that infect the lower digestive tract (both viral and bacterial) that clearly result from these infectious agents passing through the stomach unaltered.

It may be true that many viruses are destroyed by stomach acid, but you only need a few unaltered viruses to make it through.

Studies show that viruses bound to surfaces can survive stomach acid. Viruses can be bound to food or other particles which can protect them from stomach contents.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S019567012...

"FCV survived in synthetic gastric fluid at pH values as low as 2.5 and in some cases as low as 1.5 for at least 30 min when associated with certain materials."

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#255

Post by 2024throwaway »

Izkata wrote: post #247
2024throwaway wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright, fair. But this last comment was far more insightful and thoughtful than your initial flippant dismissal.

Didn't look flippant to me, it was a very direct response to the other person saying we should eat what cows eat instead. I guess it could be seen that way to someone who doesn't know cows mostly eat grass?

The original comment specifically mentioned soy and edamame. The reply only mentioned grass.

HN guidelines say: Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#256

Post by Izkata »

2024throwaway wrote: post #255
Izkata wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't look flippant to me, it was a very direct response to the other person saying we should eat what cows eat instead. I guess it could be seen that way to someone who doesn't know cows mostly eat grass?

The original comment specifically mentioned soy and edamame. The reply only mentioned grass. HN guidelines say: Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

In that case, right back at you on "strongest possible interpretation" - The focus of that first comment wasn't "soy", it was "what the animal eats". That response was both responding to the important portion while correcting them on cow diets.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#257

Post by 082349872349872 »

defrost wrote: post #249
ceejayoz wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Want to eat raw lettuce and undercooked steak without getting sick? Those privileges come from factory farming techniques. Outbreaks of E. coli, listeria, giardia, etc. are common in factory farmed bagged lettuce. Dole certainly isn't some small artisan operation; https://www.cdc.gov/listeria/outbreaks/packaged-salad-mix-12... https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/08/16/ecoli-str... "'There are more and more…

> Dole certainly isn't some small artisan operation Just for general interest, they've got quite the colonial banana rebulic oligopoly history (in surges). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dole_plc The OG Dole brothers were part of breaking the back of traditional rule in Hawaii. No comment or implication here other than, gosh, history heh?

They say the missionaries came to do good, and ended up doing very well indeed.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#258

Post by mailund »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #154
mailund wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not my field, but isn't meat pretty lossy compression food-wise? IIRC, feeding an animal to later eat instead of just eating what the animal would eat wastes like 90% (not sure of the exact figure) of the calories. So if we just ate the plants directly and easily cover our caloric needs without going through the cow-middleman. Kind of like, instead of feeding the cows a bunch of soy and then eating the cow, just eat…

So you chow down on a nice plate of grass? Humans can't derive nutrition that way.

You do realize factory farmed animals don't graze the natural farmland right? They are mostly fed either stuff that humans could eat, or food that is grown on farmland that could be used to grow human edible food.

In my country, most of the food that goes into feeding animals is imported, and I can assure you they are not importing soccer fields.

You're obviously taking my argument in bad faith.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#259

Post by drewcon »

drewcon wrote: post #95
drewcon wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The studies have been completed. The answer is no live virus.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/23/health/bird-flu-milk.html... There does seem to be confusion on this reporting. NY Times claiming FDA confirmed just fragments, others saying they did not.

Ok now I’m sure.

No live virus.

https://www.fda.gov/food/alerts-advisories-safety-informatio...

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#260

Post by 2024throwaway »

Izkata wrote: post #256
2024throwaway wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original comment specifically mentioned soy and edamame. The reply only mentioned grass. HN guidelines say: Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

In that case, right back at you on "strongest possible interpretation" - The focus of that first comment wasn't "soy", it was "what the animal eats". That response was both responding to the important portion while correcting them on cow diets.

Cows don’t only eat grass.
Post reply on HN