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IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

reuters.com

251–260 of 391 posts

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#251
Well folks are already migrating from Terraform to OpenTofu. I am sure similar open source projects for other HashiCorp's products unencumbered with IBM business model will be out pretty soon.

So all in all I think another big win for open source even if little indirectly.

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#252
post #62

> By joining IBM, HashiCorp products can be made available to a much larger audience, enabling us to serve many more users and customers. I'm really wondering who is kidding who here. Is it IBM or Hashi?

Dude some 28 year old marketing rep wrote that copy, don’t take it seriously

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. And many of the Heroku employees you speak of would have got RSUs that owed taxes on an $80 basis, been trading far below that for most of that time, and now have a maximum expected value of $35. This is not a pay day for many people. Anybody who got a pay day were those that could liquidate in the IPO.

Yeah okay, if you had 0.15% stock you're still out with $ 10M. Smaller and bigger percentages will be different but that's retirement money for hundreds and hundreds unless you pretend to live in very high CoL area. Also, most of them will likely have to keep working thereyears before cashing out some other millions likely.

> if you had 0.15% stock you're still out with $ 10M.

... Barely any employees could have that much stock. There's 2200 employees from the most recent data I see. Even if the outstanding shares were 100% employee owned, a uniform allocation would at best see a 0.045% between them all. Obviously, the shares are not uniformly distributed across employees, nor is hashicorp 100% employee owned.

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#254
post #51
post #49

Well, it was nice while it lasted! HashiCorp always felt like a company made by actual engineers, not "bean counters". Now it will just be another cog in the IBM machine, slowly grinding it down, removing everything attractive, just like RedHat and CentOS. Hopefully this will create a new wave off innovation, and someone will create something to replace the monopoly on IaC that IBM now owns.

The timing of this acquisition, and the FTC's ban on non-compete agreements is perfect.

Ban isn’t yet in effect and would have started discussions a while back. Plus, FTC ban is already being litigated by business groups, unsurprisingly.

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#255

If this accelerates migration away from Terraform towards a standard, open, IaC platform, then it's a good thing. Something like the JSON version of Terraform that can be generated by different tools, but an open standard instead. Be "interesting" to see what happens to the recently-renamed Terraform Cloud (now Hashicorp Cloud Platform Terraform :eyeroll:) Edited to add: I'm guessing the feature I want added to the t…

Maybe you’d like Pulumi?

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. And many of the Heroku employees you speak of would have got RSUs that owed taxes on an $80 basis, been trading far below that for most of that time, and now have a maximum expected value of $35. This is not a pay day for many people. Anybody who got a pay day were those that could liquidate in the IPO.

Yeah okay, if you had 0.15% stock you're still out with $ 10M. Smaller and bigger percentages will be different but that's retirement money for hundreds and hundreds unless you pretend to live in very high CoL area. Also, most of them will likely have to keep working thereyears before cashing out some other millions likely.

It's a little more complicated than that.

First of all your percentage of ownership is unrealistic. I joined in November 2019 and got a grant of a few thousand RSUs that fully vested before I left, and that I still have most of, plus I bought some shares in a few rounds of our ESPP when that became available -- as of today I have just under 5,000 shares. HashiCorp has nearly 200 million shares issued, so I own a hair over .0025% of the company. Really early employees got relatively big blocks of options but nobody I knew well there, even employees there long enough to be in that category (and there were very few of them still around by December 2021), was looking at "fuck-you money" just from the IPO.

Second, the current price isn't the whole story for employees. I had RSUs because of when I joined so the story might have been different for earlier employees who had options, but I don't think it differs in ways that matter for this discussion. As background for others:

* On IPO day in December 2021, 10% of our vested RSUs were "unlocked" -- a bit of an unusual deal where we could sell those shares immediately (or at any later time). Note "vested" there -- if you had joined the day before the IPO and not vested any RSUs yet, nothing unlocked for you. (Most of the time, as I understand it, you don't have any unlocked shares as an employee when your company IPOs -- you get to watch the stock price do whatever it does, usually go down a lot, for six months to a year.) * At a later date, if some criteria were met (which were both a report of quarterly earnings coming out and some specific financial metrics I forget), an additional tranche of vested shares (I think an additional 15%) unlocked -- I believe this was targeted at June 2022 and did happen on schedule. * After 1 year, everything vested unlocked.

At the moment of the IPO the price was $80, but it initially climbed into the $90's pretty fast. At one point, during intraday trading, it actually (very briefly) broke just above $100.

So, if you were aware ahead of time that the normal trajectory of stock post-IPO is down, and if you put in the right kind and size of limit orders, and if you were lucky enough to not overestimate the limit and end up not selling anything at all, then you could sell enough shares while it was up to cover the taxes on all of it and potentially make a little money over that. I was that lucky, and managed to hit all of those conditions while selling almost all of my unlocked shares (I even managed to sell a small block of shares at $100), plus my entire first post-IPO vesting block, and ended up with enough to cover the taxes on the whole ball of already-vested shares, plus a few grand left over. Since then, I haven't sold any shares except for what was automatically sold at each of my RSU vesting events.

For RSUs not yet vested at the IPO, the IPO price didn't matter because they sold a tranche of each new vesting block at market price to cover the taxes on them when they vested -- you could end up owing additional taxes but only, as I understand it, if the share price rose between vesting and sale of the remaining shares in the block, so you would inherently have the funds to pay the taxes on the difference. (And if the price fell in that time, you could correspondingly claim a loss to reduce your taxes owed.)

There were a fair number of people who held onto all their shares till it was way down, though, and had to sell a lot to cover their tax bill in early 2022 -- I think if you waited that long you had to sell pretty much all your unlocked shares because the price was well down by tax time (it bottomed out under $30 in early March 2022, then rose for awhile till it was back up over $55 right before tax day, so again, if you were lucky and bet on the timing right, you didn't end up too bad off, but waiting till the day before April 15 was not something I bet a lot of people felt comfortable doing while they were watching the price slide below $50 in late February). I even warned one of the sales reps I worked with, while the price was still up, about the big tax bill he should prepare for, and he was certain I was wrong and that he would only be taxed when he sold, and only on the sale price. (He was of course wrong, but I tried...)

The June unlock was pretty much irrelevant for me because by that point the share price was down under $30 -- it spent the whole month of June after the first week under $35. The highest it went between June 30, 2022 and today, was $44.34. The entire last year it's only made it above $35 on three days, and only closed above $35 on one of them. I figured long-term the company was likely to eventually either become profitable, or get bought, and in either case the price would bump back up.

I was thinking about cutting my losses and cashing out entirely when it dropped below $30 after the June layoffs, and again in November when it was below $20, and then yet again when I left the company in January of this year, but the analyst consensus seemed to be around $32-34 through all of that so I held on -- kinda glad I did now instead of selling at the bottom.

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*and early investors. Mostly early investors in many cases.

crux of the problem is the SV model is completely broken and leads to these cycles. wish it were more about sustainable progression and not rapid half-baked innovation to achieve paydays for greedy founders/investors

Huh, they won't get pay day if no one use their products. And there are plenty of examples of failed products. If people have idea and execution capability for sustainable progression they can very well try outside the valley. It is not like companies don't start outside valley.

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#258
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've misunderstood my point. RSUs became taxable at the $80 stock price for many. Depending on where you're based that could mean you owe(d) anywhere from from $22 - $38 per share in taxes. At the top end of that range, if you're still holding any stock, this acquisition has just permanently crystalised a capital loss for you. There's no upside that gets you above what you owe/paid in taxes. There are many many peo…

The taxes are computed using the IPO price, not the price at opening or closing on the first day of trading. IPO price was $35.

What are you talking about? The December 2021 IPO price was $80.

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#259
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've misunderstood my point. RSUs became taxable at the $80 stock price for many. Depending on where you're based that could mean you owe(d) anywhere from from $22 - $38 per share in taxes. At the top end of that range, if you're still holding any stock, this acquisition has just permanently crystalised a capital loss for you. There's no upside that gets you above what you owe/paid in taxes. There are many many peo…

The taxes are computed using the IPO price, not the price at opening or closing on the first day of trading. IPO price was $35.

IPO price was $80. Briefly touched slightly above $100, and then crashed with the rest of the market and has spent most of its time since below $30.

Re: IBM to buy HashiCorp in $6.4B deal

#260
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terraform does help with managing medium-large fleets, and a lot of special sauce is the structured types corresponding to cloud platforms (dubbed "providers") and the different services they offer. You could write your own configuration language and launcher but Terraform has been tested against many setups and can manage rolling restarts and other deployment methods. It's modular so you can define the configuration…

Yeah I know of Terraform (for me it was via AWS) but I just wonder how it's that valuable. For personal use, I never drank the koolaid on IaaS to begin with. Always found PaaS to be a nicer experience and I like that it actually simplifies DevOps, doesn't add complexity like an AWS or GCP does. I figure if I want more control over the server I can just use a Linux on-prem (no cost) or virtual server and I can fully c…

Hashicorp didn’t make much money because they gave their products away and their professional services (tf cloud, vault enterprise etc.) are inferior or not enough of a value add over rolling your own.

Setting up a remote state in S3/Dynamo takes 5 minutes with a publicly available module and solves most of the problems TF cloud does.

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