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End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

theguardian.com

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Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#251

Post by spacecadet »

axlee wrote: post #226
ctrw wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not gloss over the fact that we in the west do the same. Only we hide the slaves in sweatshops so our sensibilities aren't triggered. It is after all much easier to change hearts and minds in a democracy.

> Let's not gloss over the fact that we in the west do the same. Only we hide the slaves in sweatshops so our sensibilities aren't triggered. Totally: Norway and Saudi Arabia are exactly the same in terms of humanism, it's just a matter of optics, right?

Sure. Norwegians are people too, capable of evil. Thinking you are special? Thats a good starting point.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#252

Post by [deleted] »

ctrw wrote: post #222
Simon_ORourke wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> local chiefs who oppose stupid and unrealistic white elephant vanity projects are executed. Let's not gloss over the absolutely appalling respect many of these societies have for human dignity. Public executions and flogging, discrimination and imprisonment based solely on gender, absolutely zero regard for freedom of conscience when it comes to matters of religion. There's only so much you can get away with by say…

Let's not gloss over the fact that we in the west do the same. Only we hide the slaves in sweatshops so our sensibilities aren't triggered. It is after all much easier to change hearts and minds in a democracy.

[deleted]

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#253

Post by ethanbond »

spacecadet wrote: post #251
axlee wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's not gloss over the fact that we in the west do the same. Only we hide the slaves in sweatshops so our sensibilities aren't triggered. Totally: Norway and Saudi Arabia are exactly the same in terms of humanism, it's just a matter of optics, right?

Sure. Norwegians are people too, capable of evil. Thinking you are special? Thats a good starting point.

And as we all know, capable of == actually doing

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#254

Post by ethanbond »

ponector wrote: post #250
smashah wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Looks like nowadays no one in US does really care about other countries, even US allies. 6 months ago they stopped sending limited amount of weapons to Ukraine. Current foreign policy of USA clearly sends a message that other countries can do anything they want to both their citizens and their neighbors.

To be clear that’s Republicans. Democrats overwhelmingly support military aid to Ukraine. Republicans are split (at best) on the issue.

Israel-Gaza is a more complicated breakdown for sure, but it’s also a much more complicated conflict.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#255

Post by keiferski »

Symbiote wrote: post #228
keiferski wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used Switzerland as an example because of its financial industry. I wasn’t making any commentary on the culture. Presumably if the UAE is the Switzerland of the Middle East and Indian Ocean, it’s more adapted for that cultural environment and not for what Westerners are looking for. These laws are also pretty much never enforced in UAE, as far as I understand.

The laws are enforced enough that the British government gives a warning about them for visitors to the UAE. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/united-arab-emirate...

Government websites are known for giving warnings about lots of things that aren’t a big deal in real life. I am basing my opinion on people I know that have been there, plus topics on Reddit, etc. But of course your mileage may vary and it’s reasonable to be worried about such laws if they might apply to you.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#256

Post by flir »

axlee wrote: post #226
ctrw wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not gloss over the fact that we in the west do the same. Only we hide the slaves in sweatshops so our sensibilities aren't triggered. It is after all much easier to change hearts and minds in a democracy.

> Let's not gloss over the fact that we in the west do the same. Only we hide the slaves in sweatshops so our sensibilities aren't triggered. Totally: Norway and Saudi Arabia are exactly the same in terms of humanism, it's just a matter of optics, right?

No UK supermarket will guarantee their supply chain for prawns (shrimp) is slavery-free.

This in no way mitigates anybody else's issues, but that's an issue that I, personally, wish we could solve (and when we're done with that, maybe we can tackle the calorie laundering that goes on in that industry).

I think the problem is that in a globalised economy, a local issue quickly becomes an everybody issue. Am I less responsible, as a consumer, because the injury happens a long way away?

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#257

Post by ponector »

tomp wrote: post #135
keiferski wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UAE is well on its way to being the Switzerland of the Middle East and Indian Ocean. Your rhetoric sounds like it’s from 2003.

Switzerland isn't the most progressive of countries (it only gave women the right to vote in 1971) but AFAIK you don't go to jail if you fuck a man in the ass, in contrast to UAE. Not something that directly concerns me, but I'm personally more worried about restrictions on freedom of speech, but regardless not somewhere I'd be willing to live (I currently do live in Switzerland).

Why so harsh example?

This one is better: a woman in UAE went to the doctor(gynecologist) and ended up in jail because doctor found out she is pregnant but not married.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#258

Post by 0dayz »

oliviabenson wrote: post #182
Simon_ORourke wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> local chiefs who oppose stupid and unrealistic white elephant vanity projects are executed. Let's not gloss over the absolutely appalling respect many of these societies have for human dignity. Public executions and flogging, discrimination and imprisonment based solely on gender, absolutely zero regard for freedom of conscience when it comes to matters of religion. There's only so much you can get away with by say…

We are complicit (if not responsible). Accepted practice isn’t an excuse for indifference but criticising your own country isn’t a free pass to criticise the culture of others without challenging our culpability. If we sincerely want to help the citizens of these countries that we believe to be oppressed, we have options that we choose not to take. We could offer cultural asylum, give people a route to access our cul…

Sorry but this reeks of someone who hasn't actually mingled with other cultures and instead have taken academic philosophy as a substitute to make up for it.

Because you whenever it was intentional or not make yourself sound very racist by effectively saying "x person from y society actually like the barbarism said society has".

Comparisons of others in this case societies is crucial to make your own society better, failing to do makes us just reinforce bad ideas and what were then once local issues or small scale become systematic.

When it then is the case that your society is "better" then another society, then you can propose change or at least show why it's better in the "marketplace of ideas", the mistake of the past was that we saw our societies as inherently superior and as such bruteforcing said our way of life was seen as morally good and not tyranny.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#259

Post by ethanbond »

oliviabenson wrote: post #182
Simon_ORourke wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> local chiefs who oppose stupid and unrealistic white elephant vanity projects are executed. Let's not gloss over the absolutely appalling respect many of these societies have for human dignity. Public executions and flogging, discrimination and imprisonment based solely on gender, absolutely zero regard for freedom of conscience when it comes to matters of religion. There's only so much you can get away with by say…

We are complicit (if not responsible). Accepted practice isn’t an excuse for indifference but criticising your own country isn’t a free pass to criticise the culture of others without challenging our culpability. If we sincerely want to help the citizens of these countries that we believe to be oppressed, we have options that we choose not to take. We could offer cultural asylum, give people a route to access our cul…

Was slavery-era America worse on the dimension of human rights or just different?

Why does cultural relativism excuse horrors of actual modern people with access to and awareness of all modern thinking, modern technology, and modern examples of societies who achieved moral progress, but we’re perfectly comfortable saying slave owners of the past are responsible for their crimes despite being raised by slave owners in a society of slave owners embedded in a world of slave owners with a history absolutely chalk full of slave owners?

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#260

Post by sieste »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #109
walthamstow wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any other kind of tower?

Perhaps they can construct a deep underground, inverted tower, inside a sort of fissure, so some can then call it a vaginal tower. In all seriousness, in those baking desert landscapes, it would even make a considerable amount of sense for cooling costs.

You're describing open pit coal mining, the very birth place of many of the rich societies that now build phallic towers, pun intended.
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