Earlier quoted context omitted.
Compare the first paragraphs of these two articles. Remember that Wikipedia is supposed to be neutral https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/gamergate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_(harassment_campaign...
This isn't "anything remotely political" is it, it's a highly contentious culture war issue among the chronically online. I was disputing the claim actually made, not a different claim you appear to have understood I was making. For what it's worth, I agree with that KYM's opening paragraph is better and less-biased than Wikipedia's.
Ibis, a federated Wikipedia alternative
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Re: Ibis, a federated Wikipedia alternative
#252Re: Ibis, a federated Wikipedia alternative
#253Re: Ibis, a federated Wikipedia alternative
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
This isn't "anything remotely political" is it, it's a highly contentious culture war issue among the chronically online. I was disputing the claim actually made, not a different claim you appear to have understood I was making. For what it's worth, I agree with that KYM's opening paragraph is better and less-biased than Wikipedia's.
I consider the culture war a political issue but I'm glad you can see the obvious bias in the wiki article.
Re: Ibis, a federated Wikipedia alternative
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow I haven't seen a link to Conservapedia in a looong time. Out of curiosity, I clicked. They claim physical reality of the biblical flood: https://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood And wow somebody has put a lot of work in this page https://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia_proven_right Great resource if you want to know what US bible people care about. They have institutionalised their confirmation bias.
> They claim physical reality of the biblical flood There is evidence of the Mediterranean Basin flooding after breach of a land bridge across what is now the Strait of Gibraltar [1,2] some 5 million years ago. In the same way there is some evidence of the Black Sea rapidly expanding some 8000 years ago [3]. Similar 'catastrophic flood' scenarios have played out elsewhere on the planet which has led to the rise of fl…
I'm not so sure I'd call Wikipedia 'progressive'.
Re: Ibis, a federated Wikipedia alternative
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
In any case the point made was that centralized systems always corrupt. Challenge it and dare finding one example that didn't get corrupted. Also it is unjust to name crypto/Blockchain as an example of decentralized system that gets corrupted. All corruption story in fact are centralized , but labelled as crypto, or touch the field of crypto but nonetheless are very centralized. E.g mtgox, bitconnect, Celsius, FTX. I…
You’re asking for things that you plan to “no true Scotsman”. If I name an institution you will claim it doesn’t count because it isn’t big enough, or that it actually is corrupt by your measure. You have already done this with crypto. I.e. The corruption that occurs in crypto doesn’t count because those weren’t true crypto projects. So in the spirit of the challenge. Tell me how the Adventure Cycling Association is…
But your tactic won't prevent me from calling an Irish, what's truly not Scots. I will get to that.
No what I have said about crypto was clarify that those accused of corrupted decentralized entities in fact aren't decentralized. And the distinction is non obvious because many centralized entities mingle with decentralized technology. It doesn't make those decentralized, they have all the attributes of centralized systems, often trying to disguise as decentralized themselves. See we offer a spot btc exchange, non custodial. But still centralized. Yet they don't say it. And are happy to seed confusion. why the disguise? Because decentralized systems are getting known of being corrupt resistant, so it's always good to pretend having that stamp of merit. Especially when your trust is needed for doing business.
It's a bit like open source , see, one can't simply disqualify the qualities and properties of open source using the pretext that a growing list of projects fail the test, given how many projects we've seen pretending to build open source software that same fallacious argument could be made, but would it stand correct?
Ok I won't write for too much about blockchain, crypto entities and their relation (or contradiction) with decentralization, nor which qualifies as what, check for yourself, if you don't then no argument I could make in a post will convince you anyway.
About the Adventure Cycling Association, I don't know if it's corrupt. I had never heard of it. See, it's not that it's an Irishman, a Scotsman, or an English. Maybe it's bushman. I don't know exactly but it seems to me like it's part of a pretty decentralized domain. First it's not even an institution, I think, but Let's not get into the definitions as many wouldn't even agree as to what an institution is anyway. It's an organisation, that we would all agree with. and that charity organization looks closer to an entity, part of a decentralized cloud of cycling associations.
What would make the adventure Cycling Association centralized ? If it finds a way to have monopoly or quasi monopoly on Cycling activities. Or on Adventure Cycling activities. Or such activities in a certain locality that isn't limited to some irrelevant private park.
What makes centralized systems centralized? They require a level of monopoly or authority over a matter. Reasonably agreed to be extensive.
Examples.
Facebook. It qualifies as centralized because it reached such a massive network effect that it owns a certain monopoly in what it does. Sure there are other social media networks with some significant overlap in functionality but it has this sticky effect that makes jumping boat to alternatives, difficult. That's voluntarily exclusivity of sorts.
Reddit. That one is interesting, as it has some obvious decentralized properties, but some other and very strict properties that are totally centralized. Reddit made decisions on their own that applied to all. The backlash was worth of note, also that users for the most part stayed. Had Reddit been truly decentralized? A system that would have allowed some or all subs to "fork" off that decision? We would have seen a flocking of many subs onto the "classic" regulation. Anyhow not calling Reddit corrupt here but I hope you see what distinguishes decentralized from centralized structures. Here also Reddit has a very strong sticky network effect so users who didn't like it could hardly move out.
Governments. I can't skip this mention, those institutions despite being often democratic are generally pretty centralized, they have an executive administration exercising exclusive power over some of the matters of an entire nation. They don't have full control, but even for the rest, representatives form a tiny minority of the population, yet they legislate on their own, for so many. And the many don't have the choice but follow. That's not voluntary exclusivity.
The USB alliance. That's centralized corrupt institution. They have monopoly on questions regarding the USB spec and come up with all sort of financial impacting desires and mandates. Using law enforcement in attempts to get makers to oblige and pay the cartel. not voluntary exclusivity.
Power absolutely corrupts and most absolute power corrupts most absolutely.
As to the Adventure Cycling Association which I had never heard of, nor heard of any cycling associations having acquired some exclusive control over anything to do with cycling, they may or may not be corrupt, but they aren't centralized institution.
If you believe they are, then you and I are also a centralized institution discussing matters of corruption. Perhaps your see the ridicule. But hey, if you and I got control over hackernews we would truly have centralized powers over this community and it would be being corrupted to impose a certain view on the matter.
Hackernews and its moderation may have acquired certain influence and stickiness, they could get corrupted, it depends on how absolute their power is and over what. But they've so far showed decent attitude. Does it make it an example of institution that resisted corruption? Well no, not a Scotsman. Quite young and having been well guarded against abuse, sort of a niche.
My 36 cents, in the hope to have made you see something you had not distinguished from the rest, necessary to make sense of this non trivial issue. Not expecting you to entirely change your mind, it is a difficult thing to do given how much of a shaking certain sort of belief system would need to endure.
Re: Ibis, a federated Wikipedia alternative
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with this, with Wikipedia specifically is the good faith part. It isn't adherence to strict rules that is the problem. It's the massively toxic little kingdoms that have become established among power users/moderators. Like it or don't. Them is the facts.
On the other hand, it is very democratic. With many of the flaws of a democracy, If you see a kingdom, in principle and in practice the emperor has no clothes. No single person has any special power or ownership over articles. If someone acts that way, you get to tell them what you think of it, if you like, and you'll very much be in the right. And if you are, others should agree and side with you. There aren't moder…
Re: Ibis, a federated Wikipedia alternative
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you ever tried to edit on Wikipedia? It’s one of the most toxic places on the Internet. I’m partially to blame for that, btw, as I started the admin’s noticeboard.
I've edited on Wikipedia for several years and everyone I've interacted with has been nothing more than helpful. Sure, they don't shy away from pointing out the flaws in something I wrote. But I appreciate that level of honesty and transparency. Could you share what area you've experienced editing in that caused you to have this viewpoint?
Re: Ibis, a federated Wikipedia alternative
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see how federation can help with that. At worst it's going to have hundreds of conflicting versions of a document, where each federated node disagree on which is the current master of the document, because each node is fighting for their bias, or it's going to be Wikipedia, where there is one promoted version of the document with whatever bias.
> At worst it's going to have hundreds of conflicting versions of a document, where each federated node disagree on which is the current master of the document, because each node is fighting for their bias Sounds like an improvement over one dominant group being able to declare their viewpoint as The Truth(tm).
Re: Ibis, a federated Wikipedia alternative
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They claim physical reality of the biblical flood There is evidence of the Mediterranean Basin flooding after breach of a land bridge across what is now the Strait of Gibraltar [1,2] some 5 million years ago. In the same way there is some evidence of the Black Sea rapidly expanding some 8000 years ago [3]. Similar 'catastrophic flood' scenarios have played out elsewhere on the planet which has led to the rise of fl…
The National Geographic link was interesting, I hadn't thought of that. I'm not so sure I'd call Wikipedia 'progressive'.
If you're looking for the chemical composition of some substance or want to look up something related to physics or mathematics Wikipedia tends to do just fine. Articles on history are a mixed bag, especially recent history and especially anything related to 'the West'. For political subjects Wikipedia is less than useless given the aforementioned 'colonisation' but also because political operatives from 'all sides' do their best to paint as rosy a picture of 'their' side as possible.