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Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

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Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#251

Post by howerj »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #206
keepamovin wrote: post #194

[flagged]

> We should be figuring out how to create a global, collective, human advantage for everyone and the planet We haven’t solved the problem of governance. The End of History seemed close in the 1990s. But we’re back to being torn between the efficiency (and short-term stability) of authoritarian models against the flexibility (and long-term stability) of democratic ones. Until we find the model that just works, this co…

Authoritarian models are not efficient in anyway, they can project the image of being efficient but that does not mean they are. They are worse in every way apart from complete disorder and chaos.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#252

Post by thatfrenchguy »

physPop wrote: post #90
jajko wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is Article 7 of the Chinese Intelligence law? > Article seven says in part that “All organizations and citizens shall support, assist, and cooperate with national intelligence efforts in accordance with law, and shall protect national intelligence work secrets they are aware of. And that's just a nice wording to make it official, russians don't have anything similar yet they keep bribing small and big people a…

They can't "give up their nationality". Chinese government's position is that once Chinese always Chinese, and emmigrating doesn't affect that. They will still come after your family on mainland. Or use their "local police" forces stationed in most western countries to harass you in your new location.

Do you not know any first generation Chinese Americans to say such inaccurate statements? This is incredibly inaccurate, naturalized citizens are treated as foreigners by the PRC.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#253

Post by alephnerd »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #249
alephnerd wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can't "give up their nationality" You can, but it's a fucking pain in the ass, and when Zero COVID kicked in, the Chinese Embassies and Consulates stopped processing anything.

Its a formality they can ignore though. At least they have recent precedence with that Swedish bookseller who was abducted in Thailand a decade or so back.

I mean, you historically could ignore it, but it's changed since the anti-corruption purge began in 2016.

Imo there's no reason to poke that bear anymore - a lot of bad practices that were common 10 years ago are not tolerated anymore (though sadly, a lot of good practices have also started getting cracked down, like domestic criticism)

Edit: you're talking about Gui Minhai. Ok yea that's fair.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#255

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

blackoil wrote: post #237
tristor wrote: post #228

[flagged]

> It's the stated policy of the Chinese government stated as in? Can you share some source.

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/counterintelligence/the-chin...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intelligence_Law_of_t...

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#256

Post by abetusk »

antisthenes wrote: post #246
abetusk wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're getting at a basic fallacy. This is not a zero sum game. This is a positive sum game. The worlds population has been steadily growing for the past 10,000 years. The quality of life has mostly increased. We're figuring out more efficient ways to extract energy from the resources around us, including the sun. We don't live in a post-scarcity world but we also don't live in a zero-sum world either.

> I think you're getting at a basic fallacy. This is not a zero sum game. This is a positive sum game. You don't get to sweep many zero-aspects of life that are zero-sum, by calling it a fallacy, under the rug. Many scenarios in life are game-theoretical with tradeoffs, where deviation from the greater sum results in higher rewards for individual actors. Until you solve it, you don't get to say "ItS noT ZeRo Sum!!11"

> You don't get to sweep many zero-aspects of life that are zero-sum, by calling it a fallacy, under the rug.

Declaring life as a zero-sum game doesn't make it so.

I didn't just declare life as a positive sum game, I gave some basic counter examples to your claim that life is a zero sum game.

> Many scenarios in life are game-theoretical with tradeoffs, where deviation from the greater sum results in higher rewards for individual actors ...

This is a separate phenomena. It sounds like you're alluding to the Prisoner's Dilemma problem [0]. Notably, many formulations of the Prisoner's Dilemma problem are not zero-sum [1].

I never said game theoretic ideas don't apply nor did I claim that individual rewards could inhibit global reward, I specifically addressed your claim about it being zero sum.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma

[1] http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/PRISDIL.html

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#258

Post by seanmcdirmid »

alephnerd wrote: post #243
MaxPengwing wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now the biggest issue is to get those that train to come back. A lot of Russians chose not to, same with Indians, and Japanese. China has an extensive espionage network focused on keeping track of exchange students and make sure that they fall in line. Much more so than any other nation. have a friend from Malaysia and they had this smart idea that if you study abroad and get a PhD or Masters (as I understood it) you…

> chose not to, same with Indians Not anymore. It's because of visa and naturalization backlogs. When I was a kid growing up in the 90s and 2000s, it was common for Chinese nationals to naturalize and become citizens. When the Chinese backlog reached a decade long 10-20 years ago, a lot of top tier Chinese talent decided to return to China because employment visa hell sucks and the Chinese private sector formalized a…

Note that Chinese emigration rate increased again due to COVID, and more Chinese are staying since then. It will be interesting to see if that sticks or not.

A lot of Chinese just hedge their bets with lives and investments in both countries (including anchor babies).

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#259

Post by [deleted] »

Thorrez wrote: post #47
feverzsj wrote: post #27

So he was already CEO/CTO of 2 China companies while still working in google. And these information are publicly available right after he registering them. Seems a management disaster of google.

You expect Google to scan the database of companies in every country continuously to see if employees are executives of them? How would this handle different people who have the same name? Disclosure: I work at Google.

[deleted]

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#260

Post by seanmcdirmid »

alephnerd wrote: post #253
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a formality they can ignore though. At least they have recent precedence with that Swedish bookseller who was abducted in Thailand a decade or so back.

I mean, you historically could ignore it, but it's changed since the anti-corruption purge began in 2016. Imo there's no reason to poke that bear anymore - a lot of bad practices that were common 10 years ago are not tolerated anymore (though sadly, a lot of good practices have also started getting cracked down, like domestic criticism) Edit: you're talking about Gui Minhai. Ok yea that's fair.

I would place money on China in 2024 being worse at rule of law, not better, than in 2016. They granted defacto citizenship to that snowboarder, for example, even though there is no way she qualified under the text of its own law (China doesn't allow for dual citizenship...unless convenient). That was 2022.

It has been downhill since Xi took charge, but yet, he was able to use accusations of corruption to purge his competition. The things that have improved are mostly public order (like prostitution being much less visible than it was).

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