U.S. students will take the SAT online • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#251

Post by testfoobar » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 3:32 AM UTC

tssva wrote: post #248

jcranmer wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They get extra time allocation to take tests - 50% more in most cases. The numbers I hear tossed around is that a substantial fraction (20% to 40%) of school kids in some of the elite public and private schools have IEPs. Clearly there are kids who need the extra time. But that many? An IEP is a catch-all term for anything that requires special adjustment for a student. What the adjustment is varies depending on th…

My daughter has an IEP due to her dyslexia. She gets extra time on in class writing assignments and tests which have a writing component. So no extra time in general for her math or science tests. Although for science there are sometimes writing components for which she gets additional time. English, history, government, etc which are writing heavy she gets extra time. For several of her classes she is dual enrolled…

College Board has a thorough set of pages on testing accommodations here: https://accommodations.collegeboard.org/

Guidelines for ADHD: https://accommodations.collegeboard.org/request-accommodatio...

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#252

Post by tssva » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 3:33 AM UTC

thsksbd wrote: post #249

tssva wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many states no longer require a road test. Instead you take a state approved driving course and the instructor certifies you as meeting the state driving skill requirements. Most states with this system do have an option to still take a state administered driving test instead but most new drivers just take the course. My daughter got her license last August and we paid for the course. They didn’t teach her anything.…

Wow, I didnt know states did that. In my state the motorcycle licensing works similarly in that you can skip the state test, however unlike what you described for cars, the course is excellent (standard MSF course). Also, the MSF does administer a (pretty tough) test.

It has devolved into a pay for play scheme. I cut a check for a few hundred dollars and you stamp the form saying my kid can drive. You can also take the on the road driving course through your public school at no cost but the wait for that can be extremely long. Most people in my area just pay. A parent does also have to sign the form stating the kid has completed a certain number of hours driving under a certain mix of conditions with them. I think it is a total of 45 or 50 hours.

Over the last 15 years Virginia has tried to move as many DMV processes as possible to online and closed many DMV locations to save money. The elimination of the road test for most new drivers was part of this effort.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#253

Post by TrueSlacker0 » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 3:34 AM UTC

Ah, I remember this test fondly. Mostly because I "cheated" my way to a much better score than I "earned" on my presat.

I remember walking into the classroom to take the test and I recognized a student who ranked in the top of the class. So I sat down next to them. We didnt know each other. We were both taking the test and through "random" peripheral vision I noticed that none of our answers were lining up. So I continues on with the test. I was on the math section with which I am quite confident so I didn't even consider questioning myself and just assumed we had different tests. Then I started my English section for the second half of the exam. Now this is the only language I can speak but I am still terrible at all those words whose definitions mean to lookup another word (is there a word for that?). But again none of my answers lined up with theirs. I started to doubt myself but it's at this point I noticed all my first math questions are lining up perfectly with their second section... No way I think. They don't make multiple versions of the test? No way I think, it can't be this obvious. Then I start checking every English answer I am undoubtedly sure about with their first half and they all line up perfectly. Needless to say I took a "gamble" and if I didn't know all the stupid words in the analogy I just put what they put.

This long, verbose story later, I cheated my sat got 300 points higher than my pre-sat and it's all because they made 1 version of this terrible test.

If I would have had to take it digitally I would of probably cheated it in some other way. It's absolutely no way to determine intelligence. Simply test "taking" skills.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#254

Post by aio2 » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 3:34 AM UTC

RheingoldRiver wrote: post #19

tbh I'm most interested by this: > "Today's students, they do a lot of their living digitally, they do a lot of their learning digitally and they do a lot of their test taking digitally," says Priscilla Rodriguez, who oversees the SAT for the College Board, the organization behind the test. How do kids work out math problems these days? Do they draw equations with their finger on a tablet/phone? Tablet pen on tablet?…

Dude, I remember and better when I write. No way I'm going all digital in math class.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#255

Post by testfoobar » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 3:37 AM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #137

testfoobar wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many kids have an IEP - an individualized education plan. https://www2.ed.gov/parents/needs/speced/iepguide/index.html They get extra time allocation to take tests - 50% more in most cases. The numbers I hear tossed around is that a substantial fraction (20% to 40%) of school kids in some of the elite public and private schools have IEPs. Clearly there are kids who need the extra time. But that many? ADHD is the reas…

> They get extra time allocation to take tests - 50% more in most cases. The numbers I hear tossed around is that a substantial fraction (20% to 40%) of school kids in some of the elite public and private schools have IEPs. Clearly there are kids who need the extra time. But that many? An IEP is a catch-all term for anything that requires special adjustment for a student. What the adjustment is varies depending on th…

You're correct - thanks for the clarification. IEP means individualized plan - not all kids with IEPs get extra time.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#256

Post by TrueSlacker0 » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 3:41 AM UTC

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #205

pvg wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is this class of people and what makes it so clear they exist?

Certain hedge funds and elite companies stopped looking at SATs as a hire indicator. Its well known that its no longer a reasonable measure of top talent

"Its well known that its no longer a reasonable measure of top talent"

That's the exact question asked by the above poster.. any sources?

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#257

Post by drak0n1c » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 3:42 AM UTC

Perhaps they are following market pressure to streamline operations. The Classical Learning Test (CLT) is a growing SAT/ACT/PSAT competitor that can be taken online or on paper, with either remote or in-person proctoring. It is accepted by 250+ colleges and universities.

https://www.cltexam.com/

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#258

Post by parpfish » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 3:51 AM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #162

astrea wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that part of the application was a bit odd. High school me is so different from current me that I might as well be writing about a different human being entirely.

These kinds of interviews just scream ageism. For younger applicants, High School may be the most significant bit of life experience they have yet had. For older employees, high school is just a distant memory that was at most a seed that has grown into a much more branched experience

It also selects for people that have spent their early life credential-chasing and turning their life into an easily repeated list of accomplishments.

A lot of great employees rightfully spent their teen years screwing around and having fun before settling into career mode.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#259

Post by whynotminot » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 3:52 AM UTC

ecshafer wrote: post #168

jmeyer2k wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what we're working on building at AutoMark ( https://automark.io ). We're currently building grading tools for teachers, but eventually want to build out a tool to accurately monitor a student's performance over time. There's a lot of potential for AI to disrupt the education system from high school to college to a career. Currently, a GPA and a few test scores (SAT, ACT, etc) are the most in depth view into…

SAT And ACT and other standardized tests are the single best thing for giving poor students a leg up against rich students. We should be putting more emphasis on those tests. A poor but smart student can study for a test and do well on it, while they can not have continuous tutoring throughout school, paid grad students to do or proofread their homework, or extracurriculars that cost more than their parents pretax in…

This is what I don't understand about the movement that wants the SAT/ACT removed for college admissions, or claim that it's biased.

Sure, it's biased. Everything is. But it's biased in an open, auditable way that students of any background can prepare for. The rich will always have an advantage of course, but this is one of those areas where grit and determination can actually close the gap considerably.

Remove that, and a benchmark that anyone can understand and prepare for is just going to be replaced by something more opaque. You think a standardized test is biased? Do you think the application committee at most universities is going to be unbiased when they have nothing to go off but a student's essay and zip code?

It's incongruous to me that the same people who I think have a deep understanding of unconscious bias also seem to be the same ones wanting the standardized tests gone. I don't think it's going to help the people they think it will.

Re: U.S. students will take the SAT online

#260

Post by jrockway » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 4:07 AM UTC

preinheimer wrote: post #117

jrockway wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can run your VM such that VM detection can't detect it. It's an arms race. The mouse is always ahead.

If the software doesn’t report that it suspects it’s in a vm at test taking time, but instead records data for later analysis the test taker is leaving themselves open for a lot of problems months down the road.

Who is going to pay someone to look for problems months down the road?

Ultimately if malware doesn't think it's a VM, then test taking software isn't going to either. Malware is trying to resist analysis by trained professionals. Test taking software is just trying to sell to the next test; the sale is made by the company that takes the testing committee to the best sportsball game, not by how well they detect being in a VM.

(Interesting corollary; you should probably ALWAYS run inside a VM. There is so much malware that tries to detect it that it actually helps you; the malware will just shut itself off out of fear of being analyzed by a security researcher.)