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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#251

Post by erokar »

ars wrote: post #135
addicted wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has also been one of the deadliest wars for civilians in general. Also when you’re using such a loose definition of journalist obviously the deaths would be greater.

> This has also been one of the deadliest wars for civilians in general. That's not actually true. The ratio is similar to other wars. Civilians die in war, they die a lot. War sucks. But Gaza is not unusually deadly compared to other wars.

Compare it to the Russia/Ukraine war. Not even close.

In any case Israel is not conducting a war, they are conducting a massacre.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#252

Post by jncfhnb »

l3mure wrote: post #220
jncfhnb wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Fortunately, both [1] and [3] refer to 2023/2024. I look forward to your response. The book also covers up to 2006, I'm happy to post more examples once I've read that far. :)

[flagged]

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#253

Post by rakoo »

nsguy wrote: post #115
adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if Russia says that everyone in the UK has to leave the UK that doesn't give them the right to bomb every hospital in the UK

That's true but if the UK military intentionally embeds in all UK cities, in civilian clothes, and launches rockets at Russia from those cities, and the UK sends raids into Russia to kill Russians and then retreats and mixes with civilian population in the UK, what do you feel is a legitimate move or tactic by Russia to defend its citizens in this hypothetical situation?

And what if Russia had been colonizing Scotland, then Wales, then half of England, only left disjointed pockets of UK residents not allowed to vote, being watched 24/7, being beaten, harassed and killed by settlers under the watch of Russian army, and then being beaten when going to the funeral of their dead, being robbed of their natural resources, having to go through checkpoints to see their family, London being half the UK capital and half the Russian capital but actually Russia says the entirety of London is, Russia bombing neighbour countries, all of this illegal and happening for 75 years and no one in the world does anything because the richest country in the world blindly supports Russia ?

Context, always.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#254

Post by Scarblac »

immibis wrote: post #236
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10% would be considered an extremely high death rate for soldiers involved in the fighting. Even 2.5% for healthcare workers is ridiculously high. Hamas based their operations where conventional rules of war prohibit fire. That makes comparing casualty rates incredibly difficult. (To my knowledge, nobody else has done this so comprehensively. Though given its success, I expect it to be emulated. Which unfortunately…

What's the point of hiding soldiers among civilian targets if Israel is just going to bomb the civilian targets? The point of any fighter using human shields is that the enemy doesn't fire because they don't want to hurt the human shields . If they're willing to kill the human shields, they don't help you, so why bother with them? This apparent myth rubs me the same way as "there's no food because Hamas is stealing i…

> What's the point of hiding soldiers among civilian targets if Israel is just going to bomb the civilian targets

Getting international opinion to turn against Israel.

Thats the way Hamas can survive this, getting enough pressure on Israel to make them stop.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#255

Post by someotherperson »

immibis wrote: post #236
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10% would be considered an extremely high death rate for soldiers involved in the fighting. Even 2.5% for healthcare workers is ridiculously high. Hamas based their operations where conventional rules of war prohibit fire. That makes comparing casualty rates incredibly difficult. (To my knowledge, nobody else has done this so comprehensively. Though given its success, I expect it to be emulated. Which unfortunately…

What's the point of hiding soldiers among civilian targets if Israel is just going to bomb the civilian targets? The point of any fighter using human shields is that the enemy doesn't fire because they don't want to hurt the human shields . If they're willing to kill the human shields, they don't help you, so why bother with them? This apparent myth rubs me the same way as "there's no food because Hamas is stealing i…

It's just noise. Scaling this to other examples: if there was a school shooter inside a school, should the school be bombed? The answer is a resounding no, but with Gaza it turns into a yes.

This is why the common rhetoric given from politicians and jingoists is that all of them are guilty and that no one is innocent. Using the same example, the workers and students of that school are de facto responsible because they allowed that school shooter to enter the school.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#256

Post by ivan_gammel »

hersko wrote: post #191
ivan_gammel wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of definition of genocide, how population growth in Gaza in the past is related to systematic murdering of civilians we observe now?

> systematic murdering of civilians If Israel wanted to systematically murder civilians there would be a lot more dead. What you are seeing is the result of a terrorist organization hiding among civilians (human shields) while waging a war dressed as civilians (a war crime).

Again faulty logic.

Their capability to kill more does not imply that they would use it or there could not be systematic murder if they don’t use the full firepower. What I see is not just Hamas hiding among civilians (this is true and this is a war crime), but also what you conveniently ignore: systematic disregard of human life by Israel and ignorance of the duty to protect innocent lives. Some token actions to show for the press (all those „phone calls“) do not qualify as such.

What Israel should have done but did not: evacuate the entire population of Gaza to its own territory, ensure protection of human rights, guarantee access to food, healthcare and education.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#258

Post by [deleted] »

jll29 wrote: post #79
g-b-r wrote: post #26

Besides the statistics I advise anyone to also look at the reports of how the individual deaths happened, I've seen them very little discussed in western media. There's often enough evidence to show an extremely likely deliberate killing (usually with weapons that Hamas doesn't have). Journalists have been killed outside of the Gaza strip as well. Just make your own informed opinion. Furthermore, there have been so f…

War is nasty, it brings out the worst in people. Look at this, listen to their laughter while conducting their "work": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfvFpT-iypw (2007) "The video shows Reuters journalist Namir Noor-Eldeen, driver Saeed Chmagh, and several others as the Apache shoots and kills them in a public square in Eastern Baghdad after they are apparently assumed to be insurgents. After the initial shooting, a…

[deleted]

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#259

Post by erokar »

bawolff wrote: post #166
hmcq6 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say that Israel has never ordered an evacuation. I pushed back on the commenter who stated that finding a militant in a hospital or school makes it a valid target. > From my observation Well from Human Rights Watches observation: > Human Rights Watch has not been able to corroborate them, nor seen any information that would justify attacks on Gaza hospitals. When a journalist at a news conference showing vid…

When it comes to international law, i think human rights groups are more like the "prosecuter" than a neutral party. They have an interest in this conflict that is not the same as Israel's. When HRW says Israel is bad, i think its a bit like when a cop says the person they arrested is bad. It may very well be true, but i wouldn't put it as a sure thing until some sort of trial is done. P.s. in regards to "porportiona…

> They have an interest in this conflict that is not the same as Israel's.

You are quite right, Israel's interest is to kill and displace the Palestinians, crush them as a people. Very few human right groups would have an interest that aligns with that.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#260

Post by [deleted] »

archagon wrote: post #232
vladgur wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

THe reason these "international laws" are accepted by majority of modern nations is because they are somewhat reasonable and allow parties to military conflicts to wage military campaigns while attempting to minimize civilian casualties. If the laws are rewritten to state "you are never allowed to attack a hospital or a school. No exception", then what will follow is one party to the war will put their military insta…

Regardless of any second-order effects, the truth on the ground is that many thousands of innocents are suffering, and I have a hard time seeing any societal configuration where civilians can be legally blown up or starved en masse as anything but immoral. If a terrorist government is embedded in your population centers, it should not be legal to raze those population centers in retribution.

[deleted]
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