I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
251–260 of 391 posts
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
How big of a risk, do you think? The point I'm driving at is that this is (obviously) seen to be taboo behavior, but I'm not sure that anybody would find this and visit repercussions upon the author. Additionally, a lot of the taboo might be based on "word getting around." Well, how many times have you heard of management badmouthing people to other companies? Ever? I'm not sure the blacklist implied in some of these…
Absolutely a huge risk. This is a signal for litigious behavior. Who knows what could set this guy off? This time it's $10k. Maybe next time it's something else. There are a lot of smart people out there, many of whom are more reliable than this guy. Pass for sure.
"Signal for litigious behavior" - because we all know if you promise something, you shouldn't have to follow through on it unless it really works for you, and you're not upset about something else entirely. That whole "after the DB damage, I'm hesitant" implies both admission of situation, and vidictive behavior on the part of the company. Why shouldn't he be feeling litigious? Is part of your recruitment process "Must be spineless and / or company man"?
"many of whom are more reliable than this guy"?
How has he demonstrated lack of reliability?
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be fair, most companies in North America would not pay any sort of optional bonus after an employee has quit or been fired. If you quit Dec 31, and the company usually pays out annual bonuses on Jan 30, don't expect a check.
The bonus was due before he left the company. Pretty clear cut for me. The conditions were met, they owe him $10k. Maybe not legally but certainly morally.
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
Absolutely a huge risk. This is a signal for litigious behavior. Who knows what could set this guy off? This time it's $10k. Maybe next time it's something else. There are a lot of smart people out there, many of whom are more reliable than this guy. Pass for sure.
Interesting bunch of inferences and extrapolations there. "Signal for litigious behavior" - because we all know if you promise something, you shouldn't have to follow through on it unless it really works for you, and you're not upset about something else entirely. That whole "after the DB damage, I'm hesitant" implies both admission of situation, and vidictive behavior on the part of the company. Why shouldn't he be…
Hirebots are always making inferences and extrapolations that are wrong. The OP's blog post just gives more fuel to any Hirebot's prejudices.
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#255The correct response here isn't to air your grievances in public, it's to talk to a lawyer.
I agree, yes public shaming is free but he also just told the world he blew up a production database. That said I'll paraphrase Tom Watson when an employee of his made a $100,000 mistake "Are you kidding? We just spent $100,000 on your training".
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#2561. Public shaming
2. Work with a lawyer
3. Litigation
I'm taking this purely from the author's perspective, how can he get a successful outcome?
Public shaming has some downsides for the author:
- Threatening to publicize may give you some leverage. But you lose all your leverage once you take action. Losing leverage isn't good in negotiation.
- The founders of Miso are now likely furious with him, and emotionally determined to prove themselves right and him wrong. He's just increased their conviction to the point where they may fight it with irrational determination.
- It's easy to get a detail wrong, especially on an emotional topic. If the author made some mischaracterizations (even accidentally) in his post, he could be opening himself up to litigation. Especially when you think about the bullet directly above.
My recommendation to anyone is to talk with a lawyer first. I noticed some of the responses here suggest that going to a lawyer is somehow underhanded. It is not. I'm not talking about a scum-sucking bottom-feeding accident lawyer. I'm talking about a business lawyer. Usually you can get a free consultation. If not, paying for an hour or two of his time is well worth it. Consider it a form of tuition to the school of hard knocks.
Often, a lawyer could give you some pointers to either help accelerate a successful negotiation of your own, or point out any weaknesses in your case that you may have overlooked. If the matter is complex, you could have the lawyer negotiate on your behalf. This could take the form of writing a single letter to the employer.
Once that letter is on file, the employer will need to disclose it as an outstanding dispute in their future disclosures for any financing round or sale of the company, unless they settle it. This is why the employer may actually have less power than the employee in negotiating a dispute. And why you should take the honorable route, with a lawyer to help you understand the law and take the right actions.
The best way to avoid litigation is to work with an attorney. Litigation is very unnecessary, expensive, time consuming, and a distraction. I've always been able to resolve any disagreements without the need for litigation.
Think of an attorney as a guide through dangerous territory. He's been through dozens or hundreds of similar situations. He's seen how to get resolution, and he's seen things that have worked out badly. And he knows how the law views the matter. The law is complicated.
Finally, I cant possibly have an opinion about whether the employer or employee are right or wrong in this case because I haven't heard the other side. And I suggest that the rest of you take a similar neutral position.
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
* So you can tell me the exact backup times of everything at Facebook for your machine right? You're an engineer at Facebook therefore under your broad assumption you should be performing the exact same of your statement. If tomorrow everything was to fail at Facebook & there was no data recovery you're saying that everyone in the company should come blame you because well, hell, you're an engineer there after all...…
According to their site Miso have four engineers. At that scale there each and every engineer is responsibility for how things are run. If you want to only do what is assigned to you then you shouldn't be working at a startup. I've worked at small companies who'd punted on revision control and backups, and I made sure those things were put in place. When I haven't had the knowledge or access I've bought up the issue…
He did exactly what any person who got screwed over by any company should do...make it public and call them out on their bullshit.
Thanks to this fellow I will NOT be recommending Miso for their future series C round & this is why no company should screw over their employees it can cost you millions down the road.
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#258Having said that, I don't think it is correct to name and shame the company this way because it damages the reputation of the firm, and thus making it more difficult to claim the bonus. I'd have hired a lawyer and settle with the company (i.e., claim the bonus and legal expenses) if I were him.
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
+1 This guy Joshua Z.H. Wu does not come out looking good in this blog post. He doesn't realize it, but he just lost a lot more than $10k in lifetime earnings too. Someone willing to nuke something that their friends/coworkers built in this fashion is just not someone you ever want to hire. You find this kind of crap on Google, and you just don't call him back or offer an interview. After all employers are human too,…
I find the reactions here fascinating. There's a hugely bimodal distribution here between people who sympathize with the employee (I'm in that set: the guy's out ten thousand dollars, who cares about feelings or "employers being human" at that scale?) and the employer. I'd guess the latter are mostly founders, or people lurking here in the hope of someday being founders. And that makes me sad that so many of you thin…
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#26010k for a start up looking for a revenue model is a lot of money. It is effectively another month's runway. If an offer has been made, and the person is still with the company, then it is not only a contract, but a business necessity. Obviously, from an ethical perspective 10k promised is 10k owed, and regardless of how unhappy the CEO is with gaining one employee only to lose another one, we all recognize the value…
With half an engineer, maybe