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Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

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Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#251
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a reason heat pumps use electricity? I would have thought the same approach would work with gas - you only need to burn a fraction of the gas to drive the "fridge" backwards?

You seem to be missing something fundamental here, I’m not sure what it is. How do you think heat pumps work?

OP has a point, fundamentally you could drive the heat pump by a little gas turbine, or bridge the gap with a gas powered generator.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#252
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AC is just a heat pump that doesn't give you the option of running it backwards. There can be good and bad implementations of either.

New to heat pumps. Can I replace sub-components of an existing AC system with a heat pump for benefits of both?

A "heatpump" is an AC with a reversing valve. Yes you can just get a reversing valve and have some hack cut and solder it in for you. I'd assume any normal contractor would charge $1000+ for that job though. It would take multiple hours for a tech when instead he could make multiple house calls in that same time (and possible making more money doing house calls). So that is why you won't find someone to do it. It make no sense. Right now on ebay you can get a "Goodman 4 Ton 14 SEER Heat Pump" for $1800 delivered to your doorstep.

Oh and I guess another thing a heatpump has that an AC doesn't is a defrost controller board. You'd need one of those too.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#253
post #214
post #174

One of the big problems with heat pumps in New England is that our electricity costs 1.7x the US average ( https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... ). If you're in the South, a heat pump makes perfect sense. You're going to want AC anyway and it'll be way more efficient and save a ton of money when you want heat. In most of the country, even if it gets cold your electricity prices are still a t…

Right, the heat pump will reduce energy use to maybe 1/3 of a gas furnace, but natural gas is something like 6x cheaper for the same amount of energy, so it is an expensive folly. If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities to reduce prices and or stop the attacks on solar installation.

>If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities

Why would they reign in one of the best ways to ensure that Calpers remains solvent?

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#254
post #174

One of the big problems with heat pumps in New England is that our electricity costs 1.7x the US average ( https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... ). If you're in the South, a heat pump makes perfect sense. You're going to want AC anyway and it'll be way more efficient and save a ton of money when you want heat. In most of the country, even if it gets cold your electricity prices are still a t…

Yeah, I made this mistake this year. I pumped $20k into a heat pump system, coming from what used to be Natural Gas. I wasn't given any kind of relief because I live in Oregon where most relief is income based. Then at the beginning of the year PGE announced a 20% rate hike. My house is covered in trees, so solar isn't really an option. I really regretted my decision once I got a $300-$400 bill for heating three months in a row. In the summer I now have AC where I didn't at all before, but it hardly makes up for the cost of a heat pump during winter. I probably won't be doing any of these kinds programs again.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PGE goes up to 66c/kwh during peak now and in San Diego I think is >70c/kwh. Off peak base is 34c/kwh for PG&E. Gas is $4.5-$5/gal so break even I think ends up being near 50mpg ish for a 300wh/mi EV.

I'm not in CA, so genuinely curious. When you quote 66 cents/kwh is that the marginal rate for an addition kwh or is that averaging in fixed costs? I pay about $20/mo just to have an active service line to my house, even if I were to shut off the breaker and not use any power. But my marginal rate is about 18 cents/kwh. I would call my rate 18 cents but not sure if we are doing an apples to apples comparison.

Marginal rate. SDGE is insanely expensive.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#256
post #174

One of the big problems with heat pumps in New England is that our electricity costs 1.7x the US average ( https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... ). If you're in the South, a heat pump makes perfect sense. You're going to want AC anyway and it'll be way more efficient and save a ton of money when you want heat. In most of the country, even if it gets cold your electricity prices are still a t…

Alright, maybe I’m out of touch, but I don’t think electricity is expensive in California. Even during 115 degree heatwaves in a 70-year-old, 3-bedroom, single-family home. Most I paid was $100 in a month with 2 people with gaming computers working from home. Not everyone has that kind of money, but my point is that most people have cell service and other services which add up to more than electricity costs. That’s f…

Let’s say 30 kWh per day is the norm to run ac in the summer.

Assuming $.40 per kWh, which is lower than my PGE rate, that’s $360 per month just to run the ac.

Not sure what kind of setup you have. $100 is my bill if I’m not home in the winter and leave everything off.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#258

Anyone know what sort of electrical requirements there are for these? We currently have a gas furnace and gas range. My electrical panel is full (we used up the last of it installing 220V for the clothes dryer), and the furnace is on the opposite side of the house from the electric panel, under a different roofline. I'm going to at some point get an electrician in to look at things and see what the options are, but m…

If you have lighting circuits that previously were incandescent but are now all LED, you might be able to combine some of them on a single 15 amp breaker.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, HVAC contractors in the US massively overcharge. I saved ~ 10k doing the install myself. The equipment is inexpensive, labor can be upwards of 2x equipment cost.

Do you feel like the number of invisible footguns was manageable? That's always my concern with diy trades stuff, the things that seem fine at install but come back to bite you 6mo later.

There's a bunch of DIY heat pump install videos on YouTube, I watched this one recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79C2StyNlBg Honestly it convinced me that it's beyond my skillset.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#260
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a reason heat pumps use electricity? I would have thought the same approach would work with gas - you only need to burn a fraction of the gas to drive the "fridge" backwards?

You seem to be missing something fundamental here, I’m not sure what it is. How do you think heat pumps work?

Combined Heat and Power (CHP) is big in Europe.
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