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CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

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Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#251
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, impossible to say without context. But maybe it is more interesting what you should do afterwards. What did you do afterward?

The project came to an end (hence me having to wrap up their work), so I didn't do much. I'm on a new project now, but I have the same question. If someone keeps insisting their work is coming along great and they'll be checking it in real soon, how do I know if it's true?

Ask for proof. Some employees are lower-performing and some need more structure.

"Can you push your work-in-progress branch so I can take a look?"

If they are consistently under-performing you need to structure them. Split larger tasks into smaller sub-tasks that are more tractable over shorter time periods. If a large task is expected to take 3 weeks, split it into chunks of 1-2 days.

That way if a code review isn't sent out you get a quick signal that progress isn't being made.

Remember that as the manager you have authority. They may chafe at being asked to do intermediate checkins and splitting the work into smaller quanta - that's fine, they can grouse about it with their friends, but they still have to do it.

If they are underperforming even within this structure, have them keep a work log - which is basically a 1:1 asynchronous standup with just you and them. Read this work log daily and, in combination with smaller quanta of work, it should be fairly obvious progress isn't made.

At all points don't hide the ball from them that they are underperforming. Tell them that they are underperforming but give them the resources necessary to improve. Solicit their ideas on how to improve and consider implementing them.

Some employees can be structured to improve this ways. Others cannot - you work with HR on that latter group.

But again: as the manager you do not need to see butts-in-seats to gauge productivity. More importantly, it is on you to set a benchmark for productivity and communicate to your team your expectation that everyone hits it, and alert them in your (frequent!) 1:1s when they are falling short.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#252
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they checked the numbers and it showed that they’d be shouting from the rooftops, not trying to prevent anyone from discussing it.

Why would they? On what other issue do we expect transparency in the internal metrics of large corporations?

Typically you’d get that sort of thing at a quarterly report if it was actually material to the performance of the company and they had actual data. Otherwise it’s just a normal thing as far as I know to support an argument with data if you have it.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> started working at 9 am and log out at 5pm pronto. Isn't this 7-7.5 hrs? Are you not required to take at least a 30 minute break within that period? Or does Amazon pay for lunch? I thought 9-5 was a myth/thing of the past.

Required breaks are only for non-exempt roles (typically hourly FTEs with a set schedule).

I've had required breaks at part time jobs and minimum wage jobs (which will never give you >35hrs/wk and your schedule is definitely not consistent). My understanding is it is state law and the 3 west coast states all have unpaid 30min breaks (if you aren't on call during break) for >5hrs work.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#254
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally salaried positions, at least in tech on west coast include lunch, breaks, etc...

Interesting. Maybe because I'm an intern at a big CA based tech company right now that's been pro WFH, but my timesheet will specify the regular and unpaid hours. It even puts the unpaid into a lunch category. But then again, my internship feels like a job and I'm a bit confused. I do all the work with no direction, just report to my manager weekly and no training. Every internship I've had just feels like every job…

You may actually be hourly and not salaried. That said, it's not uncommon to be forced to log when you work, especially when there are PTO and things like that involved and that need to be accounted for.

Are you paid for the hours you work in the internship? If so then you are not an exempt salaried employee.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are real. What they are missing is that said person wasn't working much before. They only noticed their lack of output when working remotely, as busyness was no longer visible.

That's not at all my experience. I was and am much more productive in the office, and it has a lot to do with changing my environment to a place of work. In order of my productive environments: the office (decent private cubicles, not open concept) > coffeeshop > table at the park > home office. Why is it so hard to believe that people like me exist? And no, it's not because I like to bug my coworkers or that I haven…

You could always go to the office by yourself (or a coworking spot, or really anywhere) if the point is just changing your environment and you don’t need to bug others. Everyone gets to be happy and productive, no mandatory RTO needed.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work at Amazon too. I also refused to go in (even though the office was only a 15 minute drive) because I signed up for a remote role and I wanted to keep that flexibility. > I wonder if Amazon would check the Slack+Chime logs to see how the activity drops before and after RTO mandate. They already have and they found that productivity was way down. They don't care. They made this decision from the gut, des…

> > I wonder if Amazon would check the Slack+Chime logs to see how the activity drops before and after RTO mandate. > They already have and they found that productivity was way down. They don't care. They made this decision from the gut, despite claiming to be a data driven company. When anyone called Andy on it he just said "sometimes we make decisions that we know are right" blah blah. Respectfully, do you know thi…

> They made this decision from the gut, despite claiming to be a data driven company

I also work in a big "data driven company" and the same thing happened. Pretty sad that they bother engineers to justify everything they do with metrics (even when it's obviously wrong), but admitted in a Q&A that they didn't have productivity data to back up their RTO choice.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of a TC cut did you have to take between Amazon and your current employer?

Almost any value is worth it. On your death bed you will never say I'm glad I spent those years of my life commuting for Amazon instead of everything else I could have been doing.

Between RTO and long commute, you may have a third option which is moving near the office.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#258

Is it possible for someone to 1. Be a really good 'in person' manager (able to foster a good in-office culture, motivate and coach people effectively in real time). 2. Be a really bad 'remote' manager. Not saying RTO mandates are a good idea, but to say it's masking poor management as a black and white statement lacks nuance.

Being a good manager starts with a desire to experiment and constantly change processes to improve your team's happiness and productivity. So the 'good' manager should be able to make both work? With RTO, however, there is A LOT more wasted time. With all that extra time walking to meetings, water cooler conversations, and the busywork of running an office I can definitely see how bad managers and employees can hide…

I honestly don't know why anyone sees watercooler time or coffee kitchen time as wasted time. At least not from the first minute.

This is where basically the micromeetings happen, where social rituals and where team culture is made and lived.

There is a point of diminishing returns, but watercooler time is valuable time and what I miss most about the office.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#259
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know. Sounds good, but is there any data to back that up? “It’s all about power” or control sounds like such a cliche at this point.

Its cliche because its true. In a certain sense its not all that surprising: execs hang oit with other execs. They go to the same sports games, vacation at the same spots, attend conferences etc.

Ok, so they're at the same sports games, vacation (really?), conferences. So what, do they hang out and brag how many of their employees work from the office? Is it embarrassing for one exec of their company allows WFH? How does this "power" show?

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not so clear cut. If I stay at my RTO job for a few more years, I can probably retire at 35-40, versus taking a pay cut and retiring sometime in my late 50s. I’d say that’s worth the commute.

Good on you if that's how it works, and I would say that's worth it, if all goes according to plan. But be aware that a lot of people have tried that strategy, and just end up working until age 65 and remembering how much of their 20s and 30s they wasted. Family, health, industry shakeups, change of priorities, and on and on. There are so many variables involved in trying to predict your distant future that sometimes…

This is just anecdata, but I spend my 20s/30s doing all sorts of hobbies that I don't even like anymore. I'm working much more in my 40s and have a high income, and I'm at least as happy as I was back then. Also I don't know what age I'll retire, but I'm sure that the money I'm saving now will buy me some comfort in the future.
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