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Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

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Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#251

Post by apapapa »

johnklos wrote: post #106
apapapa wrote: post #90

IPv6 is still pretty useless to most people... Actually for me it complicates my firewall rules and don't bring any benefits (yeah down-vote me and don't reply ...)

I'll downvote you AND I'll reply. It complicates firewall rules? How about pass everything out, keeping state, and block everything in, for all of your fragile devices that can't help but run services you can't turn off? There. Your IPv6 firewalling is done. Is that complicated? You can't see any benefits? Ok. So what does that have to do with HN being available over IPv6?

Because you can access a website on both ipv4 and IPv6 doesn't really make IPv6 all that useful because you could disable it and still be able to access the same resource using ipv4...

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#252

Post by apapapa »

mkl wrote: post #114
apapapa wrote: post #90

IPv6 is still pretty useless to most people... Actually for me it complicates my firewall rules and don't bring any benefits (yeah down-vote me and don't reply ...)

"Pretty useless" is nonsense; Google works on IPv6, and 41% of Google's users access it via IPv6 [1]. "Most people" is also not true: most internet users use Google [2] (those not accessing it via IPv6 probably can't). [1] https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/216573/worldwide-market-...

Because you can access a website on both ipv4 and IPv6 doesn't really make IPv6 all that useful because you could disable it and still be able to access the same resource using ipv4...

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#253

Post by sylware »

Y_Y wrote: post #227
sylware wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IPv6 will rid us from the abomination of domestic NAT. IPv6 will, finally, enabled the real internet: all p2p protocols will start to work seamlessly. I am thinking a super simple no-dns IP (audio|video) phone protocol listening only on tcp 1 port, new bittorrent like protocol for live streaming, etc. Since IPv6 has been almost everywhere in my country for years: enjoying ssh session everywhere (ipv6 mobile internet)…

Is it possible for me, or worse, a normal person, to claim or request an ipv6 address that they can keep and use like a phone number? I'm used to dynamic allocation for residential ipv4 addresses and never bothered to beg ARIN for some or rent since from an ISP. Having an address you could keep and bring with you would be great and avoid a lot of the difficulties of DNS.

An IP is not a global phone number. You cannot port the same "number" from one carrier to another.

If we want that, global orgs in charge of the global phone number mapping must coordinate around some slice of the IPv6 address space (what they already do with international roaming of phone numbers). This will be very hard to operate safely, very probably.

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#255

Post by Rudism »

diggan wrote: post #245
throw0101d wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So that vast address space might not last as long as it would seem... Have you done the math? * math property: x^y = x^(a+b) = (x^a )x(x^b ) * IPv4 addresses are 32 bits (2^32 ) * 2^32 ~ 4.3 billion * So the IPv4 Internet has ~4.3B devices on it * IPv6 subnets are 64 bits, /64 (2^64 ) So, a IPv6 2^64 subnet is the same as (2^32 )x(2^32 ), which means (4.3B)x(IPv4 Internet). I.e., a single IPv6 subnet can hold the e…

Since you seem to know what you're talking about: Imagine a scenario where we have nano-bots to perform "repairs" in our bodies or whatever, and obviously each individual nano-bot use TCP over IPv6 because future software developers are also as lazy as us. Instead of taking paracetamol, people take nano-bot-shots which include (presumably) millions (or even billions?) of nano-bots that we inject into our bodies. Howe…

Are you implying that we would assign a public /64 subnet to a collection of nanites that were designed to be absorbed after a week in the human body, and then retire that subnet forever? This seems like an unlikely scenario, but I'll assume it's just an intellectual exercise and take a stab!

- Total number of /64 subnets available: 2^64

- Total number of humans in this future: Let's say 16 billion (roughly twice what we're at now)

To get the total number of months before we'd run out of /64 subnets, assuming each human is absorbing one every month, we divide the number of /64 subnets by the number of humans:

2^64 / 16 billion =~ 1,152,921,505

Divide by 12 to get the total number of years:

1,152,921,505 / 12 =~ 96,076,792

So by my math, assuming the human population stayed steady at 16 billion (which seems just as absurd as the initial premise) we'd have about 100 million years to figure out how to start reusing some of those old subnets before we started running into trouble.

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#256

Post by boredhedgehog »

sylware wrote: post #224
kuon wrote: post #182

I am so surprised by the hate for IPv6 in this thread. I have been deploying IPv6 for more than ten years and it really improve many situations (beside larger addresses). I have to admit, there is a learning curve. But I want to encourage everybody involved in configuring computers to learn. Also I want to rent about Cisco not using /64 for link local by default, thus being incompatible with BSD systems. Link local m…

IPv6 will rid us from the abomination of domestic NAT. IPv6 will, finally, enabled the real internet: all p2p protocols will start to work seamlessly. I am thinking a super simple no-dns IP (audio|video) phone protocol listening only on tcp 1 port, new bittorrent like protocol for live streaming, etc. Since IPv6 has been almost everywhere in my country for years: enjoying ssh session everywhere (ipv6 mobile internet)…

> IPv6 will rid us from the abomination of domestic NAT.

But won't that also have disadvantages? NAT obscures which natural person is responsible for any given household traffic, which makes user tracking and surveillance harder.

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#257

Post by nerdponx »

dns_snek wrote: post #219
iLoveOncall wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure people said exactly this about IPv4 back in the days.

Can you even begin to imagine a use case that could come close to exhausting an IP space that is perfectly capable of assigning a /60 subnet to every single grain of sand on earth? That subnet is large enough to then assign an IP address to every individual atom in that grain of sand. For comparison, if we wanted to assign every living person on Earth a grain of sand, we would only need a few cubic feet of it (less t…

One use case is private entities squatting on massive ranges that they have no hope of ever practically using, and thereby extorting other people and organizations as the rest of the address space gets massively over-allocated to other uses.

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#258

Post by eqvinox »

boredhedgehog wrote: post #256
sylware wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IPv6 will rid us from the abomination of domestic NAT. IPv6 will, finally, enabled the real internet: all p2p protocols will start to work seamlessly. I am thinking a super simple no-dns IP (audio|video) phone protocol listening only on tcp 1 port, new bittorrent like protocol for live streaming, etc. Since IPv6 has been almost everywhere in my country for years: enjoying ssh session everywhere (ipv6 mobile internet)…

> IPv6 will rid us from the abomination of domestic NAT. But won't that also have disadvantages? NAT obscures which natural person is responsible for any given household traffic, which makes user tracking and surveillance harder.

> obscures which natural person is responsible for any given household traffic

IPv6 has roughly the same level of privacy; your client device's IPv6 address changes every few hours. Yes there's a minor loss since an association can be made during those hours, but arguably with the generally low number of people sharing a household internet connection I don't think it's a huge difference.

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#259

Post by uuddlrlrbaba »

kuon wrote: post #182

I am so surprised by the hate for IPv6 in this thread. I have been deploying IPv6 for more than ten years and it really improve many situations (beside larger addresses). I have to admit, there is a learning curve. But I want to encourage everybody involved in configuring computers to learn. Also I want to rent about Cisco not using /64 for link local by default, thus being incompatible with BSD systems. Link local m…

> I have to admit, there is a learning curve. But I want to encourage everybody involved in configuring computers to learn.

This is probably most of it.

My gripe is that there is essentially no realistic end to ipv4 in sight. So we as an industry carry the debt of securing, managing and troubleshooting parallel v4 and v6 networks for decades.

If ipv4 had an EOL it'd make the transition so much better

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#260

Post by danesparza »

iknowstuff wrote: post #185
orangeboats wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am so surprised by the hate for IPv6 in this thread. I find that HN views IPv6 noticeably more harshly than many other communities I have been a part of (e.g. networking subreddits and gaming communities). I am curious of the reason behind this.

Developers who don’t care to learn how/why things work, have gone by without it, and are upset that they gotta learn more now because it works differently.

I'll bite: Can you please point me to a resource that explains it clearly, with examples?
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