Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Generation Junk

walterkirn.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 471 posts

Re: Generation Junk

#251

Post by coldtea »

woopwoop wrote: post #12

So this article implies that a number of things that we buy previously were built to last longer, and indeed did last longer. The first few examples are kitchen appliances. In this case I don't really know, but I'm at least willing to listen. Ultimately the evidence is people responding to a thread on Twitter where he solicited complaints. Not so compelling. But then he mentions a "hybrid sedan". Here I'm aware of th…

>So this article implies that a number of things that we buy previously were built to last longer, and indeed did last longer

Anecdotally, I've lost count of modern kitchen appliances such as blenders, coffee makers, cooking "processors", that have died on me. And not cheap either, basically mid-tier stuff. Any such device with extra digital "smarts" and a monitor in particular is a huge red flag.

Whereas I still have some inherited such electric appliances from the 70s and 80s that still go strong (and whenever they did, they're totally fixable).

Re: Generation Junk

#252

Post by coldtea »

idontwantthis wrote: post #240
spzb wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a survival bias in that we don't consider the appliances from yesteryear that packed up back when disco was king.

Yeah this article would be a lot more interesting if there were a conspiracy to buy up all of the indestructible appliances made more than x decades ago. If they really were that much better then more of them would be around today.

Not really, since most consumers just go for whatever has the more "features" and is marketed at them.

Re: Generation Junk

#253

Post by alexashka »

Folks here seem fixated on splitting hairs regarding which products have gotten better or worse and to what degree.

The post has more to offer besides pedantry, if only you let it.

Re: Generation Junk

#254

Post by coldtea »

fipar wrote: post #84
somewhat_drunk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't last longer. https://auto.howstuffworks.com/under-the-hood/diagnosing-car...

Well, they do (present tense) last longer in the sense that they’re still around and working, which of course doesn’t mean newer cars are worse. It’s a bit like saying someone who’s 70 lives longer than someone who’s 7. I think newer cars seem to be more reliable but older cars probably lasted longer than you think, it’s just that your view is skewed due to the market you’re used to (reading your link, while a millio…

>It’s a bit like saying someone who’s 70 lives longer than someone who’s 7.

It's more like saying that someone who's 7 && depends on factory-only parts, processors, and software, that wont be available in 20 years, with ever more complex designs being pushed in between, will not make it to 70.

Re: Generation Junk

#255

Post by dehrmann »

lawgimenez wrote: post #117
edrxty wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On average they didn't (oh no, that repair costs more than the "car is worth" as if that's a metric that actually means anything) but it was far easier to keep one running indefinitely. You could take an engine to a small machine shop and get the head and block resurfaced, valves reamed and cylinders lapped. Without any electronics to fail it was just a block of metal that was slowly losing material and a quick hit w…

As someone who drives an “old” Honda 2006, I’m surprised that this machine is still running very good. I could just take it to my local shop and had it fixed in 1-2 days. Based on my logs, I took the car for repair on average of 3-4 times a year. I am looking to purchase a new family vehicle in the future but with all the softwares, screens, and fancy stuffs I am not sure if I liked it. Anyone feels this way?

> I’m surprised that this machine is still running very good

I'm not. It's a Honda.

Re: Generation Junk

#256

Post by dehrmann »

gocartStatue wrote: post #235
YouWhy wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not expect RR to be particularly high quality, due to: 1. Small production batches, 2. Low typical usage - most RR owners do not use it to commute on a daily basis, hence do not face high reliability requirements, 3. The ability of the typical buyer to overspend on maintenance, whether preemptively or on-demand.

Small production batches are absolutely required for high quality (see Toyota, TQM)

But there isn't enough overall volume to ever get the kinks worked out.

Re: Generation Junk

#257

Post by AussieWog93 »

ip26 wrote: post #194
edrxty wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On average they didn't (oh no, that repair costs more than the "car is worth" as if that's a metric that actually means anything) but it was far easier to keep one running indefinitely. You could take an engine to a small machine shop and get the head and block resurfaced, valves reamed and cylinders lapped. Without any electronics to fail it was just a block of metal that was slowly losing material and a quick hit w…

It’s the old fuel injection vs carburetor debate. Do you want something that usually runs for 200k miles without a single problem, but takes a fancy shop to fix? Or do you want something that needs a complete rebuild every three months and needs to be retuned for your ski trip, but can be repaired by a high school boy with a tongue depressor, a q-tip, and a hammer? The rapid exodus of carburetors shocked and dismayed…

One thing I suspect has tipped the scales in favour of less repairable products is the massive decline in social capital.

30-40 years ago, if your lawnmower broke down you'd ask Dave from two doors down to come and have a look at it.

Now, you'd either take it to a professional repairman (and get it back 2 weeks and $100+ later), try to work it out yourself via online tutorials, or just throw it in the bin.

Either way, it's far more painful for a product to bee temporarily out of service these days than it once was.

Re: Generation Junk

#258

Post by coldtea »

A lof of the discussion here focusing on cars alone.

The other examples mentioned in TFA are far more convincing: things like blenders, suitcases, clothes, kitchen gloves.

Take your favorite casual clothes, like t-shirts. In many there has been a clear enshitiffication going on, with lesser quality fabrics, that last less than a few decades ago, even when the brand and the model remains the same.

How about Lenovo vs IBM laptops? Forget the red herring about the cpu being faster and such (which is about the electronics). Is it built to the same standards as those older ones were?

Even the razor thin plastic grocery bags that are much much easier to pierce is a real struggle in a number of supermarkets I go to.

And let's not get started on food stuff, where the product is supposedly the same, but the ingredients get shittier and/or the weight goes down, while the price raises even above inflation.

Re: Generation Junk

#259

Post by dehrmann »

pixl97 wrote: post #203
_vertigo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A toaster in 1950 would probably be closer to $250. Also, I don't like this counterargument because it holds that we should expect to be no better at creating high quality appliances today than in 1950 despite 73 years of advances in engineering and technology.

A Kenmore toaster in 1951 was $21 new, or $253 now. And if you go buy a commercial toaster it will (likely) last as long as one of those old toasters on average. This said those old appliances could be fixed, but today the labor costs of having someone else do it would be astronomical for most people. A significant portion of the total cost.

What changed to bring down the cost so much? There's some clever bits to make them work, but the bill of materials is low, and none of the parts or manufacturing should be all that complex.

Re: Generation Junk

#260

Post by MrDresden »

I can at least suggest the brand Wilfa as something that will last in the kitchen. Have the same kettle and bur coffee grinder that I bought back in 2012.

My Dyson bagless vacuum cleaner is turning six soon and is going strong.

The laptops I sadly have to agree on though.

Post reply on HN