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Ruby 3.3

ruby-lang.org

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Re: Ruby 3.3

#251

Post by hello_moto »

999900000999 wrote: post #189
hello_moto wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you want to build web-app that fit Rails. I wouldn't use NodeJS to build web-app that fits Rails. NodeJS ecosystem feels like building on a house of cards though.

NodeJS is probably my strongest language. But it's horribly unstable, the sheer amount of legacy code is overwhelming. Python feels alot cleaner, but I wouldn't pick it over Node for web UI automation or Rest API testing.

The biggest problem with NodeJS ecosystem is the type of crowd that gets excited over NodeJS: JS developers, some web folks.

NodeJS does not attract the kind of people who build ElasticSearch, Kafka, Hadoop, Spring Framework, etc so the quality of the libraries reflected of that the Web Developers crowd: the short-term Do-ers (need it today, let's build it, and let's move on to the next interesting stuff).

Re: Ruby 3.3

#252

Post by pdimitar »

hello_moto wrote: post #250
pdimitar wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They all have their niches. Rust is difficult but rewards you for your persistence. I do appreciate Rust a lot but nowadays find myself reaching for Golang more often. I simply don't have the extra time and energy to learn the final more advanced Rust pieces in my own leisure time so I'll learn it whenever I can but yeah, in the meantime: Golang to the rescue.

> I simply don't have the extra time and energy to learn Nobody does these days. Language is just a tiny piece of the whole Cloud ecosystem aside from k8s, docker, different storages (elastic, rdbms, mongo), different monitoring/metrics solution, etc. I work for a company that is testing Rust and the complain was that the tooling wasn't there compare to Golang.

> Nobody does these days.

Well I don't know if this is a shallow generalization or just observation but in case it's the latter: I am a senior dev with too much stuff in my hands already, and my personal life's list of pleasures comprises of 2 items: sex and sleep. I figured that at 40+ that is VERY NOT OKAY and I am working to change it.

So yes, I no longer will sacrifice personal time to hone my programming weapons.

Or as we say here in the Balkans: "The quality of the music depends on the tip to the musicians".

Re: Ruby 3.3

#254

Post by ksec »

pdimitar wrote: post #226
cutler wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you factored-out developer productivity. What you gain in reduced server costs is lost many times over in developer productivity. Companies who chose Rails for decades knew it was slower and more memory-hungry than rolling everything yourself in Rust or C++. They did the math and the business case for Rails was more compelling.

> But you factored-out developer productivity. Let's not act like everyone who tries Rust gives up. OK? Sure it's definitely more difficult but people are learning and practicing and the pool is slowly expanding (me included, though I am not at production-grade experience yet). > What you gain in reduced server costs is lost many times over in developer productivity. Are you exaggerating for dramatic effect? I'd say…

>I have worked with Rails for 6.5 years and they knew no such thing. They treated server costs exactly like they treated programmers -- a necessary evil, a cost center that (currently) cannot be optimized away.

Luckily we now have company that is large enough with incentive to optimise it.

Re: Ruby 3.3

#255

Post by ksec »

pdimitar wrote: post #252
hello_moto wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I simply don't have the extra time and energy to learn Nobody does these days. Language is just a tiny piece of the whole Cloud ecosystem aside from k8s, docker, different storages (elastic, rdbms, mongo), different monitoring/metrics solution, etc. I work for a company that is testing Rust and the complain was that the tooling wasn't there compare to Golang.

> Nobody does these days. Well I don't know if this is a shallow generalization or just observation but in case it's the latter: I am a senior dev with too much stuff in my hands already, and my personal life's list of pleasures comprises of 2 items: sex and sleep. I figured that at 40+ that is VERY NOT OKAY and I am working to change it. So yes, I no longer will sacrifice personal time to hone my programming weapons…

I was going to ask if you had time to look at Crystal since you are using GO and wrote about not using any scripting language but I guess you dont :)

Re: Ruby 3.3

#256

Post by pdimitar »

ksec wrote: post #255
pdimitar wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody does these days. Well I don't know if this is a shallow generalization or just observation but in case it's the latter: I am a senior dev with too much stuff in my hands already, and my personal life's list of pleasures comprises of 2 items: sex and sleep. I figured that at 40+ that is VERY NOT OKAY and I am working to change it. So yes, I no longer will sacrifice personal time to hone my programming weapons…

I was going to ask if you had time to look at Crystal since you are using GO and wrote about not using any scripting language but I guess you dont :)

But I did, some year and a half ago.

Found nothing that would impress me. Ruby syntax? Who cares? Compiled and with better performance? Well, what's wrong with Golang and Rust? They do fantastically well.

I don't see what niche is Crystal trying to cater to. Other languages have better compilers and a bigger, more developed ecosystem.

Re: Ruby 3.3

#257

Post by CoolCold »

pdimitar wrote: post #237
Alifatisk wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is worth comparing any two languages and ecosystems if they are used for the same things, in this case -- web backends. Right I see your point, but in this case it’s about Ruby, the language itself, not RoR.

Not denying it, I just struggle to find any non-RoR usage of Ruby out there except maybe for Homebrew.

Chef? Puppet?

Re: Ruby 3.3

#259

Post by materielle »

wolfgang42 wrote: post #96
kyledrake wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if a slight performance increase is going to sell anyone on ruby but I'm glad they're making incremental improvements on things. Being overly concerned about performance is almost always premature optimization, and ruby is more than fast enough for everything I've ever asked of it (including the binding glue between our redis DNS record storage and PowerDNS, where the entire stack serves half a billion q…

> half a billion queries a month across 14 tiny VPSes For reference: $ units -1v '1|2 billion reqs/month / 14 servers' 'req/sec/server' 1|2 billion reqs/month / 14 servers = 13.580899 req/sec/server I always do this when I see large-sounding query counts; a month has a lot of seconds in it, and it’s easier to visualize only one at a time: I can imagine hooking a speaker up to the server and getting a 14Hz buzz, or do…

Yea 14 qps isn’t high performance. I think the parent comment is right that most people don’t work on high performance software and so Ruby will work fine.

But something to keep in mind. I’ve seen servers before that could serve in the 100,000 QPS range on a single instance! They weren’t written in Ruby.

Re: Ruby 3.3

#260

Post by ksec »

pdimitar wrote: post #244
Alifatisk wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right about that, and that's something I believe the Ruby team is struggling with, to show where Ruby is useful outside the Web field. Everyones picture of Ruby is web related thanks to Rails, there is no question about it. And I find that bit sad because Ruby is also good at other things like building cli apps (have a look at Metasploit for example) & gluing different moving parts together, creating your own…

We're venturing in the not exhaustively objectively proven benefits and virtues of strong static typing but nowadays I reach for Golang and not for shell scripts (or Ruby, or Python). Why? Just today I again had to do Homebrew cleanups so one recipe can install. Likely my fault, 100% sure about it, but I just need non-confusing tools in my life. ...Or I kept grooming my homemade cross-machine provisioning scripts (i.…

>But yeah, that's venturing into philosophy which was not the topic.

I guess you touch on something why many of the discussions on HN and Internet fail to get the point across, when you could have someone in their 10s or 20s who couldn't understand it. Just like how we were told when we were young.

>Nowadays I don't appreciate unbridled freedom as much. I appreciate and even enjoy constructive limitations. Truth is we can be very much like kids and should be protected from harming each other.

It is unfortunate this line of fine balance thinking is not well understood by many, young or old.

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