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Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

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Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#251

Post by mardifoufs »

samstave wrote: post #178
n2d4 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Alipay, but afaict WeChat needs this feature for WeChat Wifi, which lets users connect to internet hotspots from their WeChat accounts https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzI1NjA0NzQzOQ==&mid=265026...

The complexities and capabilities in the Chinese(well, most asia) mobile market are remarkable. I always find it funny when people boast about how great certain things are in the US without ever have traveled to HK, Singapore, Tokyo, Beijing etc... Most people dont realize just how entangled mobile life is in Asia, way more than in the US.

Is that inherently greater than not being connected or using super apps? Also, I didn't know Tokyo or japan in general were also into the "big app" concept. Japan in general didn't seem that "connected" relatively speaking back in 2017-18 but maybe stuff has changed in the past couple of years.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#252

Post by heyoni »

dcdc123 wrote: post #228
salawat wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that in a corporate context, not asking the user for permission or explaining what/why you are doing something is the (sociopathic imo, but nevertheless) norm . To the degree you do disclose something like that it is inevitably hidden away or obfuscated by being put somewhere in the UX that no one ever really goes. Like seriously. I had the argument before; Architect: we're going to fingerprint users. Me…

How does that apply to thise case though? Asking for permissions on iOS is the norm and many apps include a message indicating what and why they are about to request something non-obvious before sending the request and triggering the popup.

This particular entitlement does not trigger any pop up and can’t be disabled by the user except by uninstalling the app.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#253

Post by heyoni »

qwytw wrote: post #39
filleokus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Facebook/Instagram/Messenger (or Alipay / WeChat as mentioned in the article) has this entitlement and does fishy stuff, I guess this can actually be a large privacy issue? Does Apple do any analysis of entitlement usage and withdraw them when abused? A similar thing I remember is the Facebook VPN "scandal" where I think Apple withdrew the Facebook enterprise signing certificate?

What do entitlements have to do with not asking for user permission though? Seems like separate issues.

Entitlements don’t require user permission.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#254

Post by lxgr »

anileated wrote: post #69
stavros wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does apple get to decide which app gets automatic access to my private data, on my device, without needing to ask me?

FWIW I used WeChat a few years ago and at that point it definitely asked for local network access (which is what this article is about; a mechanism for collecting SSIDs which can then later be correlated to locations). If there is an entitlement, it is as of yet unclear whether it means a consent dialog/privacy toggle or not. IIRC an entitlement only means you can ask for this sort of access, not get it automatically…

That’s not what that permission does. As mentioned in TFA, SSID scanning access requires an entitlement (granted by Apple), not a permission (granted by the user).

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#255

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

WendyTheWillow wrote: post #248
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who keeps GPS off, absolutely. Not that I think I can trust the phone actually disabled the GPS, but there is no reason my movements need to be tracked and recorded in detail. Make them go through the effort and pull up all the cellphone towers I ping. Day to day, there is a very good chance I am still in my home city as first configured.

What percent of users would agree with you, in your estimation?

I guess I should just give up on privacy, because the typical user prioritizes convenience.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#256

Post by dns_snek »

talldatethrow wrote: post #236
dns_snek wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They clearly purchased the phone, therefore it's not "their" (Apple's)

I honestly don't see it like that anymore. You paid in to buy the object but you're still asking for permission to use their overall ecosystem. I think it's more like a child buying a teams jersey so that he can play on the team, but he can still get kicked off the team if he doesnt follow the rules. You can't argue "but I paid for the uniform with your logo, you must let me play 1st base!" Sure the child still owns…

I think we agree.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#257

Post by dcdc123 »

heyoni wrote: post #252
dcdc123 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that apply to thise case though? Asking for permissions on iOS is the norm and many apps include a message indicating what and why they are about to request something non-obvious before sending the request and triggering the popup.

This particular entitlement does not trigger any pop up and can’t be disabled by the user except by uninstalling the app.

Yes, I get that...I just meant his whole spiel about "not asking for permission being the norm". In the context of iOS permissions not asking is the exception.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#258

Post by thomastjeffery »

coldcode wrote: post #2

FYI, that API requires entitlements to be used, which are only available if you request them from Apple and justify their use. It's not a general-purpose API any app can use.

Did Apple audit their code, then? Why in the world should anyone trust Apple to be responsible?
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