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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#251

Post by MichaelZuo »

mistermann wrote: post #187
ameminator wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, the "benefit of the doubt" has been lost in relation to this subject. I no longer believe it is possible to have any thread about this remain civil. It's tragic and a tragic subject, although I dispute the "there couldn't be a more significant current event" - lots of events are equally (or more) significant and relevant. I hope to be proven wrong, but I have doubts.

> I no longer believe it is possible to have any thread about this remain civil. I bet almost no one in this thread is able to juggle three balls either, even though learning how to do so doesn't take all that much practice. But it does take some practice. Should we be surprised when people are unable to do something that requires practice and education , when they lack both?

If the vast majority of HN users can't juggle three balls simultaneously, but the few experts can, it seems fair that the experts shouldn't be restricted from juggling, as long as they comply with the rules.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#252

Post by regularjack »

iddan wrote: post #136

[flagged]

Maybe rockets wouldn't be shot if Israel would not illegally occupy territories.

It seems pretty logical to me that when a state starts illegally extending its borders pretty much immediately after its formation, their neighbors will not be happy about it and will fight back.

No need to be an antisemite to understand this, it's just common sense.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#253

Post by [deleted] »

gerash wrote: post #245

I don't want to pick sides in this sad generational conflict and I can see each side has their points but I want this parasitic Israel-US relationship to end. AIPAC has worked hard over the years to make any politicians with the slightest opposition to Israel to be unelectable. I don't see how that's ok. They pretty much own the US government at federal and state levels. They have passed laws at the state level where…

[deleted]

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#254

Post by xyzelement »

I have mixed feelings about this topic appearing on HN as I feel like folks are entrenched one way or the other and information isn't going to sway anyone. If this were a discussion we want to have here, this feels like a very bad article as by it's nature it's a one-sided subjective narrative with very little light to shed on the depth of the conflict. An interesting differentiator left unsaid in this article is that Israel released these guys upon investigation which by wartime standards is good behavior (in contrast to hostages kidnapped and held by Hamas still)

A thing that makes this conflict difficult to talk about is that the prevalence of coverage makes so many people take sides, while the depth of their understanding is basically just hearing the repetition of a word and applying the emotion of that word to the conflict. For example people hear "genocide in Gaza" and their opinion is simple: genocide is bad. It takes a little digging that most people don't bother to realize the population of Gaza has continued to grow exponentially [1] which is basically the opposite of genocide.

Sometimes reading about this conflict feels like seeing someone outraged at an oncologist because of what the radiation treatment is doing to a patient. Yes its bad, yes it's hurting them, but you can't really make sense of that unless you understand cancer and the greater danger that necessitates this kind of response.

[1] https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/gaza-populati...

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#255

Post by adhamsalama »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #100
cassepipe wrote: post #56

Those are the most serious allegations: "The men and teenage boys were taken to a warehouse where they sat on a bare floor covered in scattered grains of rice. There they were beaten, interrogated and verbally abused. There was no sleep, and the grains of rice cut their skin as they sat there, undressed." A man claims: "Some people didn’t return from the torture sessions. We would hear their screams and then nothing.…

Nations at war defend themselves by degrading the military might and desire to wage war of the enemy state. I find Israel's actions to be overly callous towards civilian death, but it's important to keep in mind that civilian death was inevitable once the government of Gaza decided to invade Israel and intentionally target civilians.

[flagged]

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#256

Post by 0xDEF »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #220
lornemalvo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framing it as some kind of "(post-)colonial" conflict inevitably leads to skewing/biasing the whole analysis and is theoretically flawed.

Generalized bias aside, is the UN similarly biased specifically in officially classifying Israel as a (colonial) occupying force and the Palestinian population as refugee?

The UN is blatantly biased. There are ~50 Islamic states in the UN that compulsively always vote against Israel. These Islamic states have even made rambling and screaming about Israel a mandatory ceremony (Item 7) at UNHRC sessions.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#259

Post by adhamsalama »

liorsbg wrote: post #164
lossolo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have been firing rockets for decades. They killed 28 people over 20 years with 20k+ rockets[1]. Israel killed 17 000 people in two months. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_...

This doesn't make it OK.

Yes, killing over 17000 people, most of them women and children is not OK.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#260

Post by JoshTko »

anovick wrote: post #154
dang wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you're of course right—and at the same time, if I ask myself how to follow HN's core principle [1] in relation to this topic, I can't see "don't touch it at all" as right either. It may be an impossible quandary—but it's not in the spirit of this place to take an easy way out; or to put it differently, the easy way out (if one exists) is not in the spirit of this place. What does "curiosity" mean in a context li…

I'm sorry, but even if I concede the notion that this piece promotes "intellectual curiosity" in some amount (how much?), this news source is highly biased and has been found to spread fake news especially on the events since October 7th including current war in Gaza. There is real harm in spreading this information. As you may or may not know, mobs and individuals around the world are fed such false narratives that…

Are you saying this article is dangerous because it may further engage folks that have been already enraged due to having been misinformation elsewhere to the point it could result in violence? Also how does that compare with the actual harm and health of innocent people mentioned in the article?
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