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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#251

Post by catlover76 »

KittenInABox wrote: post #61
mastazi wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that parent is suggesting that platforms are actively prioritising one over the other. I think they are saying that the composition of users of these apps skews one way rather than the other due to pre existing stances, and the fact that the apps are not available in some markets. As a result, certain views are prioritised as a byproduct of the fact that all modern social media apps have an algorithm th…

> I think they are saying that the composition of users of these apps skews one way rather than the other due to pre existing stances I think the notion that the vast chunk of Twitter or TikTok had a pre existing stance on Israel/Palestine before Oct 7 is kind of silly, imo? Before this I could scroll Twitter without seeing anything about Israel or Palestine for... idk. Weeks, months at a time. I'll maybe see one thi…

I think it's pretty unfair this person is being down voted.

Yes, most Americans knew the conflict existed previous to this past October, but few who weren't Jewish or Muslim and/or Arab (I think most Arab Christians are generally/vaguely pro-Palestinian, but not sure) would have had strong opinions about it or been able to tell you much. I don't think the issue has ever featured this heavily in the US news cycle since oil embargoes in the 70s, and the issue is a lot more contentious now due to a few different factors.

Right now, unless someone consumes zero news media and has very curated social media feeds, I don't see how they could avoid understanding this has all been a major geopolitical event that is continuing to unfold.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#252

Post by 49531 »

matrix87 wrote: post #198
ARandumGuy wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel and pro-Israel commentators have spent a lot of time and effort trying to ingrain the idea that Israel == Jews. Of course, not all Jews are Israeli, and not all Israelis are Jews. And there are many Jewish Israelis who are critical of the actions of the Israeli government. Of course, a lot of criticism of Israel is rooted in antisemitism. But saying all criticism of Israel is antisemitic deflects legitimate cr…

> But saying all criticism of Israel is antisemitic deflects legitimate criticism Who is saying this? All I've heard are people on one side insisting that people are saying this, sounds like a straw man

The US House of Representatives passed a measure on Tuesday which "clearly and firmly states that anti-Zionism is antisemitism"[1]; so at least 311 congress members are saying it.

1. https://www.congress.gov/118/bills/hres894/BILLS-118hres894i...

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#253

Post by ReptileMan »

Scubabear68 wrote: post #91

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

>Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

Okay - then what should be Israel's response? For me what they are doing is the bare minimum with the minimum casualties from the options they have. Hamas is Gaza's government. Hamas has intertwined the civilian and the military infrastructure. Hamas has made sure that the civilian Palestinians will suffer if you target Hamas. And it was Hamas that made sure with organized rape, torture and atrocities on Oct 7 that it can't be overlooked or forgiven.

Here is a good rule of thumb - if you are going to stir shit - stick to just killing. Don't livestream torture and rape, so diplomacy will have something to work with.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#254

Post by givemeethekeys »

wolverine876 wrote: post #226
jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

What is your specific assertion here? Are you saying something about the article? Does it demonstrate that this group has not suppressed pro-Palestine speech in places in the US? > there are 1 billion Muslims to 16 million Jews The vasty majority of Muslims are not in the US, the area relevant to the article. Also, to complicate things, afaik most Jewish Americans oppose Israel's right wing, especially the current go…

Take a wild guess how support changes when confronted by a major attack.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#255

Post by Dig1t »

rushingcreek wrote: post #66
beltsazar wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on "Israeli what". Anti Israeli government: It's not antisemitic. Anti Israeli people: It's antisemitic.

It’s more complicated than that. Criticizing Israeli settlements in the West Bank is not antisemitic. But suggesting that Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state is antisemitic as it implies ethnic cleansing. Both are arguably criticisms of the Israeli government.

Genuinely curious, why does it imply ethnic cleansing? Why does it need to be a binary choice between ethnostate and complete ethnic cleansing?

We have seen that in the western world that we do not abide the idea of ethnostates, e.g. it is considered bigoted to oppose unlimited migration from refugee countries into Europe or North America. Likewise it is not okay to say "only X race or Y religion can be in government". Why is it okay in the case of Israel?

Jews lived and existed before Israel was established and they were not ethnically cleansed.

I don't really have a dog in this fight and I'm not trying to controversial, I'm genuinely curious because the choice you offer seems like a false dichotomy.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#256

Post by knd775 »

mrangle wrote: post #236

There was always going to be an opinion war after 1200 massacred civilians, when a large portion of the other side doesn't take the primary tack of "stop bombing Palestine" but instead "Free Palestine". This particular pro-Palestinian argument being so imprecise and tactically wrong, at this crucial time to saving the lives of Palestinians, only guarantees an unsovable hurricane of noise with no outcome but more civi…

> There was always going to be an opinion war after 1200 massacred civilians, when a large portion of the other side doesn't take the primary tack of "stop bombing Palestine" but instead "Free Palestine".

The West Bank shows what happens if they only stop being bombed without actually being free. Palestine needs to be free in order for there to be peace.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#257

Post by mantas »

notaustinpowers wrote: post #160
incrudible wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests? I do not recollect a similar response to the treatment of ISIS or the war in Yemen, even though both had the unconditional support of the US war machine. Even if the left could be absolved of antisemitism, the resistance groups it is aligning itself with clearly can not.

The free flow of information and lack of government control over access to that information. Much of the early Iraq war and even, to an extent, conflicts with ISIS and Yemen had the benefit of those citizens not having access to the internet. So any information many American citizens were getting was filtered through what the military allowed to be known, then further filtered by the news. With Palestine and Israel,…

I remember quite a lot of footage from ISIS around the internet. The difference was that mainstream media didn’t pick them up. Nor there was a widespread support to ISIS. Even though both ISIS was similar to Hamas and dealing with ISIS was as brutal as Gaza invasion with many collaterals.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#259

Post by craigmccaskill »

ristlane wrote: post #127
Scubabear68 wrote: post #91

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

[flagged]

So I have to have been involved in protesting a non-Israel conflict to have an opinion on this one?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#260

Post by underlipton »

jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

Many black Americans hold pro-Palestinian views because of the perceived similarity to civil rights abuses in America and South Africa, as well as Palestinian support for Black Lives Matter. Brown Americans for similar reasons. American youth cohorts (under 40) are blacker and browner than its elderly, and the most likely to use the platforms in question. The oblique suggestion of shadowy puppeteers tricking minorities and youth and whipping them into a mob that's rallying against their own interests is an old racist and ageist canard, and disappointing, if unsurprising, to see conjured here.

No one group has a monopoly on reason.

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