This is Elon level recklessness.. is he involved in any way?
Man I hope Elon jumps in and backs Ilya. That drama would keep me entertained for a while.
haha that would be next level, and indeed entertainment for weeks to come
OpenAI board in discussions with Sam Altman to return as CEO
251–260 of 1001 posts
Re: OpenAI board in discussions with Sam Altman to return as CEO
#252I'd bet money Satya was a driver of this reversal. I genuinely can't believe the board didn't see this coming. I think they could have won in the court of public opinion if their press release said they loved Sam but felt like his skills and ambitions diverged from their mission. But instead, they tried to skewer him, and it backfired completely. I hope Sam comes back. He'll make a lot more money if he doesn't, but I…
I hope he says he will return, but only in return for a massive stock grant, to prevent this problem from returning.
Why do you believe a stock grant would be better? And yes, the board messed up here, but do you not think oversight is important?
Re: OpenAI board in discussions with Sam Altman to return as CEO
#253Whether or not you agree about the board's decisions, you cannot deny that this has been some excellent drama to gossip over the past 24 hours, like a soap opera but with real consequences that might only be apparent years from now.
Between this and Starship launch, it was my Saturday well spent.
Re: OpenAI board in discussions with Sam Altman to return as CEO
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I hope Sam comes back Why? We would have more diversity in this space if he leaves, which would get us another AI startup with huge funding and know how from OpenAI, while OpenAI would become less Sam Altman like. I think him staying is bad for the field overall compared to OpenAI splitting in two.
We have diversity in the space, and OpenAI just happens to be the leader and they are putting tremendous pressure on everyone else to deliver. If Sam leaves and starts an OpenAI competitor I think it would take quite some time for such a company to deliver a model with GPT-4 parity given the immense amount of data that would need to be re-collected and the immense amount of training time. Meanwhile OpenAI would be in…
AFAICT Sam and his financial objectives was the reason for not open sourcing the work of a non profit.. He might be wishing he chose the other policy now that he can't legally just take the closed source with him to an unambiguously for profit company.
Personally, I would expect a lot more development of GPT-4+ as soon as this is split up from one closed group making gpt-5 in secret and it seems silly to exchange a reliable future for another few months of depending on this little shell game.
Re: OpenAI board in discussions with Sam Altman to return as CEO
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any talented engineer or scientist who actually wants to ship product AND make money would head over to Sam’s startup. Any investor who cares about making money would fund Sam’s startup as well. The way the board pulled this off really gave them no good outcome. They stand to lose talent AND investors AND customers. Half the people I know who use GPT in their work are wondering if it will be even worth paying for if…
I still haven't heard an explanation of why people who use GPT would be under the impression that Sam had anything to do with the past improvements in GPT versions.
Brockman maybe, though. Or at least in some sort of leadership capacity.
Re: OpenAI board in discussions with Sam Altman to return as CEO
#256You know, I always found Mike judge to probably be the most prescient of all of the science fiction authors. In Office Space, Idiocracy, and most relevant here in Silicon Valley; he accurately, and very precisely not only forecasts, but deconstructs the reasoning, and vapid lack of core philosophy behind each of the real life narratives he’s parodying. That serious people still consider Silicon Valley as some kind of…
I recognize the brilliance of SV (the show) but couldn't make it past a few episodes because it was just too painfully close to home. Now that I work for a non-tech, non-SV company (agricultural equip manufacturer in fact), and have some distance from the real world SV, maybe I could watch it without my skin crawling.
I found the episodes legitimately stressful to watch. "Too close to home" is exactly right. I grimaced through them though. And nowadays I do enjoy watching the "best of" clips on YouTube, or linking my coworkers to whatever scene from the show is relevant to the current meeting...
Re: OpenAI board in discussions with Sam Altman to return as CEO
#257Sam Altman should make it a condition of his return that the current board be dissolved and have a completely new board picked to avoid such dramatics in the future.
That sounds like something a dictator would do.
Re: OpenAI board in discussions with Sam Altman to return as CEO
#258It could be that Microsoft is leveraging them to bring him back. This board may seem mercurial at the moment, but we really, truly, and honestly still do not have the big picture yet.
How are they leveraging them? My understanding is Microsoft has no power over the board.
As a for instance, and I don't know, but it's plausible Microsoft has full license to use all tech, is the cloud operating it, and has escape clauses tied to "key persons".
That combination could mean firing the CEO results in Microsoft getting to have everything and OpenAI being some code and models without a cloud, and whatever people that wouldn't cross the street with Altman.
I do not know about OpenAI's deal with Microsoft. But I have been on both sides of deals written that way, where I've been the provider's key person and the contract offered code escrow, and I've been a buyer that tied the contract to a set of key persons and had full source code rights, surviving any agreement.
You do this if you think the tech could be existential to you, and you pay a lot for it because effectively you're pre-buying the assets after some future implosion. OTOH, it tends to be not well understood by most people involved in the hundreds of pages of paperwork across a dozen or more interlocking agreements.
. . .
EDIT TO ADD:
This speculating article seems to agree with my speculation, daddy has the cloud car keys, and key person ouster could be a breach:
Only a fraction of Microsoft’s $10 billion investment in OpenAI has been wired to the startup, while a significant portion of the funding, divided into tranches, is in the form of cloud compute purchases instead of cash, according to people familiar with their agreement.
That gives the software giant significant leverage as it sorts through the fallout from the ouster of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. The firm’s board said on Friday that it had lost confidence in his ability to lead, without giving additional details.
One person familiar with the matter said Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella believes OpenAI’s directors mishandled Altman’s firing and the action has destabilized a key partner for the company. It’s unclear if OpenAI, which has been racking up expenses as it goes on a hiring spree and pours resources into technological developments, violated its contract with Microsoft by suddenly ousting Altman.
https://www.semafor.com/article/11/18/2023/openai-has-receiv...
Re: OpenAI board in discussions with Sam Altman to return as CEO
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
A non profit board absolutely calls the shots at a non profit, in so far as the CEO and their employment goes. Non profit boards are not beholden, structurally, to investors and there are no shareholders. No stakeholder would walk away from OpenAI for want of sam Altman. They don’t license OpenAI technology or provide funding for his contribution. They do it to get access to GPT4. There is no comparable competitor av…
Yes the board could claim OpenAI is nonprofit. But who is going to pay for the operation and salaries of its employees. Definitely not OpenAI itself. They still need massive capital. With this drama, its future is put in serious doubt
The board can and does claim it because it is legally a non profit. There is no wishy washy space this isn’t true in. Sam Altman isn’t the source of their funds, regardless. Finally, OpenAI has a pretty successful business model already without outside investment, and without sam or with sam they will not have trouble accessing customers or investors should they need it, even from Microsoft. Let’s be real Altman isn’t OpenAI.
Re: OpenAI board in discussions with Sam Altman to return as CEO
#260[deleted]