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Richard Stallman: How I do my Computing

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Re: Richard Stallman: How I do my Computing

#251
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And unix was originally written on a machine with less than 144 kilobytes of RAM using a teletypewriter... > What amazing contributions to the world's software have these enormous screens allowed you to make? A tool is a tool, and is different than a person. When it comes to programming, the person is more important than the tool, but the tool does affect the person. You can theoretically do roughly the same work on…

I have to grant you a few points. #1: I've heard RMS complain about his lemote netbook, about it being slow and with a small screen, although I supposed he could attach an external monitor. As far as the lemote netbook, I wouldn't buy one because lemote is an arm of the Chinese government and the loongson processor already has design flaws, and is licensed from MIPS. It beats me why he doesn't use an OpenRISC platfor…

> I supposed he could attach an external monitor.

I'm not sure it's powerful enough to handle one 1080p external screen. It's certainly not powerful enough to handle two. (My desktop can't handle three with its current graphics card and driver.)

I also think that you need X for multi-monitor setups. When I Ctrl+Alt+F2 (C-M-F2 if you are used to emacs) for a console, it just mirrors the screens. Even if you could get it to not mirror, I'm not sure what meaningful advantage you would get over just tiling lots of terminals in a very basic window manager.

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> RMS seems to have stopped hacking software, so his computing requirements seem to be limited to what's necessary to produce his writing. He also seems to be getting support and service from other people's computers/servers and other people. I'm not sure that any average person would want or be able to do things exactly like him.

Yes. Maybe I'm subconsciously being overly critical because he chose to stop hacking and start writing philosophy. Different people obviously have different needs, and those needs are best served by different devices.

That being said, he seems to use his netbook because he has no other choice, not because he wants to. Perhaps the Free Software Foundation (FSF) should spin off a Free Hardware Foundation (FHF) if he wants devices that can run GNU/Linux (as he puts it) without needing any sort of proprietary firmware at all. It seems unhackerish (if that's a word) to just accept circumstances rather than to try to build your way out of them. I'd gladly use a FHF motherboard/CPU for the next box I build if they were decent -- and if they existed!

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> However, I've known too many Russian/Finnish hackers who grew up with computers like clones of the sinclair zx80 who would surely not have been as awesome had they started off on supercomputers. Something about the easy availability of resources and lack of simplicity seems to spoil some of the fun.

Yes. I hate it when classes "teach" programming with IDEs that think (and code) for you. I took a class that required the use of Eclipse, so I went ahead and coded in emacs anyway. It's very vital to build up things like muscle memory (from basic editors that don't get in your way) and resourcefulness (from poor hardware) if you want to get good at programming. It's easier to learn a good concept out of necessity than just because you've been told that it's good.

That being said, once you've learned how to do something hard, if you don't want to do it again you shouldn't have to. The best environments for learning might not be the same as the best environments for use once you know what you're doing. (Although I would, in my biased opinion, think that something like emacs comes close. It doesn't get in your way or try to think for you like a "modern" IDE, and yet it has lots of depth if you know the right commands or download the right extensions. It seems to encourage learning to obtain more functionality, rather than just having menus upon menus. I'm not opposed in principle to IDEs, but none of them seem to have sane, minimalist defaults. It's a sad state of modern software where an example of bloat in the 1980s is now an example of minimalism today.)

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> This is why I think so many hackers are drawn to simpler devices like ardunio or embedded microcontrollers.

It's also just fun to build things. I'm looking forward to the Raspberry Pi. I don't know what I'm going to do with it when I get it, but I'm sure I'll find some use for hardware that inexpensive.

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P.S. I hope I'm not giving the impression that I hate rms. I wouldn't be so picky here if I thought that his end goal wasn't worth achieving.

Re: Richard Stallman: How I do my Computing

#252

I was surprised to find such an article here. I thought that this site was all about promoting starups? If you think about it for a minute, Richard Stallman's point of view would eliminate most startups that ycombinator promotes (directly or indirectly). They would fail financially. He mentions using google and duckduckgo on friends computers. Do you think he would consider clicking on adverts free? I don't think so…

I think you might misunderstand what he means by "free". https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

Re: Richard Stallman: How I do my Computing

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Can't build a tesla coil in your garage either." What the hell? You are joking, right?

You can , if you want to, but it could run you into a lot of trouble. That's not the point.

No, it would not... Give me a break.

I pray that Poe's Law is in out in full force here.

Re: Richard Stallman: How I do my Computing

#254
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this idea of having dominion over any computational object (or really any object) is a fantasy. Are you going generate your own electricity riding your generator bike (powered by veggies from your garden) as you code? That's where I think his ideals go off the rails, their totality beyond common sense. FOSS of various flavors is cool. Of course it's not really free though. It's created by people in the context of…

You could...use solar power. Your idea of 'beyond common sense' seems pretty limited in scope. And the F in FOSS isn't about price, it's about liberty. This is the very first thing anyone involving themselves in a discussion on FOSS should be aware of, and I feel sure that you knew that. What was the point of this comment?

I was refering to the concept of "total dominion" over our computing devices, and trying to illustrate that this a hopeless goal.

Yes, you could generate your own power, live in total isolation off the grid, attempt to make everything in your life yourself. You would fail, but you could try. But even in this, you are not free from being subject to the laws that govern where you live.

This is an old debate: where should peoples freedom of behavior be controlled to the extent that it impinges on others' "freedom."

This is where RMS loses me. His concept of freedom does not seem to include the concept that people should be free to conduct business in accordance with the laws of the land.

In the US we are currently free to create and distribute FOSS if we want. Isn't that enough freedom? It's not totally free (in the liberty sense) but there is still a lot of freedom to do as one please with anything that you create (if its "original").

I happen to think that there are real problems with copyright now. The concepts behind the laws were derived before digital technology, and were always intended to address the commercial exploitation of original works. Not what individuals did.

We have a situation now where the copyright laws are being enforced against individuals making copies of works for personal, non-commercial reasons, which feels unjust to me.

I think part of the intensity behind the MPAA's legal attacks is the perception that if they give an inch, people will take a mile. And the legal foundation of copyright would be undermined by "facts on the ground."

Changing the copyright laws to reflect current technology seems like a good idea.

Re: Richard Stallman: How I do my Computing

#255
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This general argument pioneered by ESR against RMS is something that you hear a lot: the idea that open source software is just better. (And it is that too!) #1: it's too hard to say whether the free software movement would have evolved without RMS. We do know that Linux was able to bootstrap from GNU which was founded some 7 years earlier and without that, it probably wouldn't have taken off the way it did. By the t…

> it's too hard to say whether the free software movement would have evolved without RMS. Hypothetical speculation of how history would have turned out if certain details were changed a little bit are hard to argue because they're hypothetical and thus a realm of opinion. There does not exist an actual alternate universe in which a given event never happened that we can just observe to see how things worked out diffe…

Instead of responding to things that might be factually inaccurate, let me just save time and reframe the debate between ESR and RMS.

ESR thinks that open source makes good business sense since open source is better than closed source. Computing is something that extends our ability to get things done, but isn't an end in itself. We need to be pragmatic about what businesses want, and how the business world works in order to perform our role of helping people do business.

RMS doesn't care so much about what the business world wants or the fact that open-source is indeed better.

He sees hacking and computing as one of the greatest achievments of mankind. Because it's a great achievement of mankind (like writing, or alphabets, or language itself) he thinks that it should be made available to everyone, and never closed off. In other words, for the people who live in it, spending their lives working on it and in it, software is culture. It's not just an application that you use like a word processor. And in the hacker culture, there needs to be a free flow of ideas like there is in the scientific community.

This is reflected in the different licenses. The GPL "restricts" people from trying to close off one of the greatest achievements of human kind for the sake of some people who want to earn some more money off of it. The BSD-style licenses consider themselves more practical in that they allow for better commercial exploitation by eventually imposing restrictions. This is why Apple is so heavily involved in converting FreeBSD away from GPL code Currently I think it's about 50% GPL and OpenBSD is more like 60%. They plan to replace the GPL code with BSD licensed code so they don't have to contribute to the project eventually.

Clearly some code isn't the equivalent of Shakespearean drama, and it won't matter that humanity is deprived of it. Microsoft word comes to mind. But for the really amazing software, the software that involves the cutting edge free flowing of ideas, and I would argue that the linux kernel falls into this category, GPL gives it the ability to serve as a lasting monument to human ingenuity, as well as a way of transmitting culture. It's no coincidence that the linux kernel powers nearly all web servers, smartphones and supercomputers.

Re: Richard Stallman: How I do my Computing

#256
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to grant you a few points. #1: I've heard RMS complain about his lemote netbook, about it being slow and with a small screen, although I supposed he could attach an external monitor. As far as the lemote netbook, I wouldn't buy one because lemote is an arm of the Chinese government and the loongson processor already has design flaws, and is licensed from MIPS. It beats me why he doesn't use an OpenRISC platfor…

> I supposed he could attach an external monitor. I'm not sure it's powerful enough to handle one 1080p external screen. It's certainly not powerful enough to handle two. (My desktop can't handle three with its current graphics card and driver.) I also think that you need X for multi-monitor setups. When I Ctrl+Alt+F2 (C-M-F2 if you are used to emacs) for a console, it just mirrors the screens. Even if you could get…

>>It seems unhackerish (if that's a word) to just accept circumstances rather than to try to build your way out of them. I'd gladly use a FHF motherboard/CPU for the next box I build if they were decent -- and if they existed!

As I mentioned above, they do exist: http://orsoc.se/127/langswitch_lang/en/

Even the bus architecture is open and the processor itself can be debugged or modified. As other people have mentioned, there is coreboot (coreboot.org) for a number of other platforms.

Re: Richard Stallman: How I do my Computing

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can , if you want to, but it could run you into a lot of trouble. That's not the point.

No, it would not... Give me a break. I pray that Poe's Law is in out in full force here.

We're probably not picturing the same thing here. How about a nuclear reactor? A 100kw transmitter? Does that help? Want me to draw it?

Nice way to stray from the argument while being an ass. We're not even discussing anything related to free software anymore.

Re: Richard Stallman: How I do my Computing

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could you estimate for me how much it would cost ycombinator-backed companies if the Free software they used did not feel the need (promoted by zealots like him) to be free? How many of these companies could not exist at all? Look at your stack. How much of the software in it are you paying for, and how much is RMS's zealotry paying for? Did you contribute anything yourself to that stack? I think you should send RMS…

> a lot of open source isn't Free in RMS's terms, but he does promote the whole open source movement as a whole You are wrong. "I do not advocate open source [...]" - Richard Stallman See: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/09/15/rms_why_open_source_...

sorry, reading what I wrote I can see I didn't phrase my pedantic point correctly - I included it for just such a comment as yours!

What I meant to say is that he doesn't endorse non-Free OSS. But he does end up "promoting" it however (not purposefully), DESPITE being stricter/more to the left than it.

I guess rather than promote I should have said help or aid. If he didn't do what he did the open source movement wouldn't be as strong. He's insane and too left, but his being there helps the whole floss movement, even the parts he disagrees with on principle.

Re: Richard Stallman: How I do my Computing

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it would not... Give me a break. I pray that Poe's Law is in out in full force here.

We're probably not picturing the same thing here. How about a nuclear reactor? A 100kw transmitter? Does that help? Want me to draw it? Nice way to stray from the argument while being an ass. We're not even discussing anything related to free software anymore.

Exactly how much power to you think a tesla coil uses...? O.o

Also, the primary reasons you cannot run (most kinds) of nuclear reactors in your garage have nothing to do with your power company (this said, if you do want to run your own powerplant and sell power back to the grid, you are more than free to do so... If you don't care about plugging yourself into the grid then you are even more free to do so). Similarly, FCC regulations on transmitter power are also questionably related.

"We're not even discussing the issue of free software anymore"

Thanks to your confused analogies, and what I'm not perceiving as some pretty fundamental misconceptions about basic electronics, yes... If you are going to attempt to argue your point with an analogy, and your analogy is broken, expect to be called out. That is just common sense.

Re: Richard Stallman: How I do my Computing

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think he was an abrasive fanatic. Oh wait, I still do. I'm tired of being told my decisions are compromises, and wrong ones at that. I'm tired of being told I owe everything to someone by people who completely ignore history. Imagine if someone told you "If it weren't for Abraham Lincoln, half the population would still be living in slavery today." You'd laugh in their face.

Because slaves would have magicked out of slavery due to the passage of time? I'm not sure why you would laugh in their face rather than suggest alternative scenarios where other processes might have eliminated slavery if Lincoln hadn't happened. I'm not smart enough to understand your comment. Are you saying that free software would have inevitably come to exist with or without Stallman? If you are, I'd say the burd…

Given that someone already wrote something (scratching their own itch, hoped to make money but gave up, altruism), they may decide to jump from low adoption+recognition to potential ubiquity by releasing the software free for others to exploit. On the basis of individual incentive alone, this is inevitable.
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