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macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

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Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#251

Post by gassi »

apwoefjwepoo wrote: post #195
NavinF wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I wonder why anyone would turn ProMotion off considering that 120Hz massively improves responsiveness. I've only encountered one app that doesn't work with variable refresh rate and that's Genshin on Windows. Even that's probably not an issue with newer monitors that can handle VRR down to 60Hz without my monitor's frame-doubling flicker as it keeps switching been 60Hz and 120Hz

I turned it off. The primary reason is that I use ctrl+arrow keys to move between workspaces frequently. These might seem unrelated, but: * There's a `defaults set` setting that allows you to speed up the transition animation length from 1 second to 0.5 second, which is huge because that transition is extremely poorly implemented (it leaves the windows on the workspace that you're leaving activated until the transiti…

This is exactly the reason why I disabled it when I upgraded to my current M1, and I'm relieved to hear I'm not the only one experiencing this.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#252

Post by jonhohle »

baz00 wrote: post #39
vbezhenar wrote: post #15

Today I had to DFU restore my macbook because I wanted to reinstall it, but built-in restore over the web did not work. My base system was 13.2, it downloads all the files for 13.6, it filled bar to 100% and then spewed error. It's obvious that it's some incompatibility between 13.2 base system and 13.6 install. Apple quality is atrocious these days. One would have thought they would test the most basic scenarios bef…

Yeah the Apple bootloader and restore stuff scares the shit out of me. The network access requirement, firmware on SSD and hardware lock are always lurking waiting for the most inconvenient time to go wonky when I hose something. Conversely windows, just got a USB stick in the drawer I can boot off.

In the FireWire days, you could firmware boot a Mac into target disk mode and plug it into another mac where it would show up as a disk.

How far we’ve fallen.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#253

Post by jonhohle »

coldtea wrote: post #58
fifteen1506 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why there will never be a Year of the Linux Desktop -- no-one wants to have to depend on forum posts to fix these kind of issues. /troll

Why the "/troll"? You're 100% right non-ironically: the problem being that on Linux the need to consult forum posts to fix these kind of issues is way more frequent than in macOS.

This is anecdotal, but my last “corporate job” was the closest to thing to shrink-wrapped software, even though it was a SaaS. Every release was meticulously documented. Any public facing UI or API change was approved the appropriate teams.

This is similar to macOS, Windows, or even FreeBSD releases. I haven’t seen any Linux distribution that has such comprehensively coordinated releases. Between systemd and the Linux kernel, I’m not sure it would be possible.

Many distros have good documentation, but, in my experience, far too often the bulk of it is in out of date wikis or forums. Perhaps this is out of date thinking and I’ve missed the train in the past 10 years.

As a counterpoint, OpenWRT has been good, but their main “product”, imho, is LuCI. Lower level issues often require vendor specific forums.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#254

Post by eddieroger »

OJFord wrote: post #243
ehutch79 wrote: post #239

Reading many of the comments here… I wonder if a lot of hacker news commenters have actually met real, everyday users of technology. Not other nerds and grognards, but like, the lady sitting over in a cubical, who only knows enough about computers to do their job. Do you really think users want graphic mode selection on boot? What percent of Mac users have alternate bootloaders or even know what that means. A lot of…

From the submission: > Once System Firmware is updated to the macOS Sonoma version, if the display is configured to a refresh rate other than ProMotion, that system will no longer be able to boot into older macOS installs nor Asahi Linux correctly. This includes recovery mode when those systems are set as the default boot OS, and also System Recovery at least until the next subsequent OS upgrade. That can and will ab…

> that system will no longer be able to boot into older macOS installs

No, that seems pretty super-user to me. The average user goes forward in versions, not back, and rarely has two at the same time.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#255

Post by Clamchop »

cesarb wrote: post #168
baz00 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the Apple bootloader and restore stuff scares the shit out of me. The network access requirement, firmware on SSD and hardware lock are always lurking waiting for the most inconvenient time to go wonky when I hose something. Conversely windows, just got a USB stick in the drawer I can boot off.

> Conversely windows, just got a USB stick in the drawer I can boot off. It goes further than that, on many motherboards even a failed firmware update can be fixed through a random USB stick from the drawer, you just need the right BIOS file to put in it.

And some motherboards even have a backup BIOS if one of them becomes deranged. Now that's luxury.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#256

Post by tomxor »

shawnz wrote: post #147
tomxor wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least it works. I find low-res bios screens reassuring... something I can depend on.

Maybe instead of spending effort providing low res fallback options, we should be spending more effort making high res GUI-based options more dependable?

No effort was spent.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#257

Post by tomxor »

doubloon wrote: post #161
tomxor wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least it works. I find low-res bios screens reassuring... something I can depend on.

i heard these new fangled jibjabs don't even have audible POST beeps.

Ah yes, I almost forgot about the POST bleep bloops, and the clickedy click of the HDD actuator... or if you go back far enough the crunching of a 3.5in floppy - though to be fair that was sometimes more anxiety inducing (not the most reliable medium).

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#258

Post by OJFord »

eddieroger wrote: post #254
OJFord wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the submission: > Once System Firmware is updated to the macOS Sonoma version, if the display is configured to a refresh rate other than ProMotion, that system will no longer be able to boot into older macOS installs nor Asahi Linux correctly. This includes recovery mode when those systems are set as the default boot OS, and also System Recovery at least until the next subsequent OS upgrade. That can and will ab…

> that system will no longer be able to boot into older macOS installs No, that seems pretty super-user to me. The average user goes forward in versions, not back, and rarely has two at the same time.

On the contrary all normal users have two at the same time, that's the system recovery one mentioned.

Normal people don't care about it, talk about it, or think about it, but may come to rely on it - or have it used by a 'Genius' when something stops working. It affects them.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#259

Post by Clamchop »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #245
SamuelAdams wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple today is very different from the Apple of 20 years ago. The brand is the same, yes, but the people are all largely different. You see this all the time in the video game industry, ie Blizzard, Bungie, 343 industries. Maybe the newest group of programmers and engineers are dealing with a very complicated code base? Maybe no one fully understands everything involved until something breaks?

It's likely not a single person understands the entire MacOS stack anymore, at least since Mavericks, all the pre-1985 old guard engineers having retired by then.

Interesting take given that a Mac today has virtually nothing in common with a Mac of the late 1990s, let alone 1984.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#260

Post by MichaelZuo »

Clamchop wrote: post #259
MichaelZuo wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's likely not a single person understands the entire MacOS stack anymore, at least since Mavericks, all the pre-1985 old guard engineers having retired by then.

Interesting take given that a Mac today has virtually nothing in common with a Mac of the late 1990s, let alone 1984.

Says who?
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