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Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

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Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#251

Post by krapp »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #151
EvanAnderson wrote: post #30

There's a product here that's been waiting to happen for awhile. I've been anticipating somebody cross-compiling another browser engine to WASM but this works, too. Deliver your site only to the "inner browser" (that the user has no control over because it's heavily obfuscated and tricked-out with anti-debugging code) and you eliminate all ad blockers. Throw some DNS-over-HTTPS w/ certificate pinning in for good meas…

Hopefully that will be literally illegal due to accessibility concerns. Doesn't matter either way. Can't wait for AI-powered ad blocking. Just imagine it. AI parses content and filters out ads, brands, even subtle PR text from pages automatically. Not just textual content either. It also kills ads in audio, video, images. If I can imagine it, it must be possible. I'm sure someone much smarter than me will create this…

In any other context, having an AI interpret websites and decide what you should and shouldn't be allowed to read, even based on "subtle" language (which one assumes the AI would need to rewrite,) would be considered the grossest form of censorship. It's far beyond what Twitter and other social media platforms have been accused of simply by using algorithmic feeds and people want to burn them to the ground.

I'm not against ad-blocking but this seems a bit too Big Brother-ish.

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#252

Post by matheusmoreira »

krapp wrote: post #251
matheusmoreira wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully that will be literally illegal due to accessibility concerns. Doesn't matter either way. Can't wait for AI-powered ad blocking. Just imagine it. AI parses content and filters out ads, brands, even subtle PR text from pages automatically. Not just textual content either. It also kills ads in audio, video, images. If I can imagine it, it must be possible. I'm sure someone much smarter than me will create this…

In any other context, having an AI interpret websites and decide what you should and shouldn't be allowed to read, even based on "subtle" language (which one assumes the AI would need to rewrite,) would be considered the grossest form of censorship. It's far beyond what Twitter and other social media platforms have been accused of simply by using algorithmic feeds and people want to burn them to the ground. I'm not a…

It's not censorship if I control the AI and can turn it off at any time.

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#253

Post by wasyl »

krapp wrote: post #251
matheusmoreira wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully that will be literally illegal due to accessibility concerns. Doesn't matter either way. Can't wait for AI-powered ad blocking. Just imagine it. AI parses content and filters out ads, brands, even subtle PR text from pages automatically. Not just textual content either. It also kills ads in audio, video, images. If I can imagine it, it must be possible. I'm sure someone much smarter than me will create this…

In any other context, having an AI interpret websites and decide what you should and shouldn't be allowed to read, even based on "subtle" language (which one assumes the AI would need to rewrite,) would be considered the grossest form of censorship. It's far beyond what Twitter and other social media platforms have been accused of simply by using algorithmic feeds and people want to burn them to the ground. I'm not a…

By that logic you could call regular ad blocking censorship, because it does exactly the same thing as parent described, only without AI and less effectively. I see a difference between algorithmic feeds that I have no control over that are designed to boost the companies goals, and an opt-in tool (hopefully an open one) running locally and modifying the content presentation to remove things I don't want in the first place

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#254

Post by krapp »

streakfix wrote: post #147
cyanydeez wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Godel would like a word with you. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/goedel-incompleteness/sup... .

By that logic emulators and virtual machines shouldn't be possible.

Are you arguing that Gödel's incompleteness theorems are trivially proven false because VMs and emulators exist?

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#255

Post by matheusmoreira »

chiggsy wrote: post #214
matheusmoreira wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully that will be literally illegal due to accessibility concerns. Doesn't matter either way. Can't wait for AI-powered ad blocking. Just imagine it. AI parses content and filters out ads, brands, even subtle PR text from pages automatically. Not just textual content either. It also kills ads in audio, video, images. If I can imagine it, it must be possible. I'm sure someone much smarter than me will create this…

>I'm sure someone much smarter than me will create this at some point. Such a person is the very last creature I want parsing every byte of content delivered to me. in order to make this service a reality it must be local. What we need is data poisoning. Have the AI watch ads, spoof responses, while we watch ad free content. Run it like SETI, during our devices downtime. They'll try to raise fraud concerns. Understan…

> in order to make this service a reality it must be local

Absolutely. AI should be local and under our control at all times. Local models that run on our computers is something I want very much.

> What we need is data poisoning.

Agreed. Anything that reduces their profits is valid. Ideally to zero or into the negatives. Their "concerns" are irrelevant.

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#256

Post by panta »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #252
krapp wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any other context, having an AI interpret websites and decide what you should and shouldn't be allowed to read, even based on "subtle" language (which one assumes the AI would need to rewrite,) would be considered the grossest form of censorship. It's far beyond what Twitter and other social media platforms have been accused of simply by using algorithmic feeds and people want to burn them to the ground. I'm not a…

It's not censorship if I control the AI and can turn it off at any time.

Much more powerful entities are going to be in control. The "beauty" of AI is that it's a black box, and you can't directly check its biases. Guess who will win the people control battle? (If we are speaking of the illusion of control, it's a different matter of course)

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#257

Post by matheusmoreira »

lelanthran wrote: post #233
matheusmoreira wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do. I think advertising of all kinds should be illegal. I consider it to be a form of mind rape when they forcibly insert their brands and products into my mind without my consent.

> I consider it to be a form of mind rape when they forcibly insert their brands and products into my mind without my consent. We aren't talking about a Clockwork Orange type of scneario. You're trivialising real rape when you refer to easily avoidable online-advertising. Your mind "rape" is in no way or form analogous to rape.

Rape is violation of the body without consent. My mind is part of my body. I feel violated.

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#258

Post by Intralexical »

krapp wrote: post #251
matheusmoreira wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully that will be literally illegal due to accessibility concerns. Doesn't matter either way. Can't wait for AI-powered ad blocking. Just imagine it. AI parses content and filters out ads, brands, even subtle PR text from pages automatically. Not just textual content either. It also kills ads in audio, video, images. If I can imagine it, it must be possible. I'm sure someone much smarter than me will create this…

In any other context, having an AI interpret websites and decide what you should and shouldn't be allowed to read, even based on "subtle" language (which one assumes the AI would need to rewrite,) would be considered the grossest form of censorship. It's far beyond what Twitter and other social media platforms have been accused of simply by using algorithmic feeds and people want to burn them to the ground. I'm not a…

ML algorithms are already constantly deciding what you should and shouldn't be allowed to read, by surfacing, amplifying, and suppressing content on Google, Youtube, every social media platform, baked-in Windows ads I presume, etc. based on each website's own financial and/or political interests. And soon ML algorithms will be increasingly deciding what you can and can't read, by vomiting out the "content" in the first place according to those interests.

Maybe I'm just fatigued from the constant erosion of user autonomy over information consumption, but as long as a ML ad blocker runs locally by the user's own decision, it doesn't seem that Big Brother-ish (compared to serverside shovel-feeds), and as long as there's a single-click toggle to disable it like in existing ad blockers (or if E.G. the UI exposes a side pane to show the content it's blocked) and it can be configured to be less or more aggressive based on content patterns, it hardly seems like censorship… As far as uses of "AI" go.

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#259

Post by Intralexical »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #255
chiggsy wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm sure someone much smarter than me will create this at some point. Such a person is the very last creature I want parsing every byte of content delivered to me. in order to make this service a reality it must be local. What we need is data poisoning. Have the AI watch ads, spoof responses, while we watch ad free content. Run it like SETI, during our devices downtime. They'll try to raise fraud concerns. Understan…

> in order to make this service a reality it must be local Absolutely. AI should be local and under our control at all times. Local models that run on our computers is something I want very much. > What we need is data poisoning. Agreed. Anything that reduces their profits is valid. Ideally to zero or into the negatives. Their "concerns" are irrelevant.

> Agreed. Anything reduces their profits is valid. Ideally to zero or into the negatives. Their "concerns" are irrelevant.

It would be better to produce a more profitable business model that doesn't incentivize or benefit from being shitty/harmful. "They" can then either adapt and cut it out with their shenanigans, or die out outcompeted by companies that do.

Re: Shadow: New browser engine made almost entirely in JavaScript

#260

Post by krapp »

wasyl wrote: post #253
krapp wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any other context, having an AI interpret websites and decide what you should and shouldn't be allowed to read, even based on "subtle" language (which one assumes the AI would need to rewrite,) would be considered the grossest form of censorship. It's far beyond what Twitter and other social media platforms have been accused of simply by using algorithmic feeds and people want to burn them to the ground. I'm not a…

By that logic you could call regular ad blocking censorship, because it does exactly the same thing as parent described, only without AI and less effectively. I see a difference between algorithmic feeds that I have no control over that are designed to boost the companies goals, and an opt-in tool (hopefully an open one) running locally and modifying the content presentation to remove things I don't want in the first…

Ad blocking is censorship.

Censorship that many people, myself included, agree with (I don't believe all censorship is harmful) but it is clearly censorship.

But the real problem is assuming everything an AI blocks will be an "ad." Why is this the only instance where the slippery slope doesn't apply? This is different than a normal ad blocker that uses specific heuristics to block specific elements - an AI will be employed to make "intelligent" editorial decisions based on interpreting the intent of the content. What happens when it decides - or is ordered to decide - that political advocacy or the promotion of certain ideas or contrary narratives amounts to "advertising" them?

It's literally just enforcing wrongthink, most likely using closed source centralized services run by corporations who will be harvesting and selling your data to advertisers anyway. But it's cool because ads. It's not cool when it's Nazis or doxxing transgender people or spreading conspiracy theories or plotting sedition, but it's definitely cool if Justin Whang wants to sell me on Nord VPN.

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