Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer • Hacker News Board

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#251

Post by mixdup » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:48 PM UTC

apercu wrote: post #24

infrawhispers wrote: post #4

From a friend: Everyone was laid off with no severance or benefits. The CEO put all the blame on a lender in order to explain why there were no severance packages. This sucks because they took it upon themselves to offer staff retention bonuses earlier this year to keep people around after the earlier layoff.

I'd be interested in whether the C-level got any severance or healthcare....

regardless, C-level salaries were probably high enough that they can skate by a while without a salary for a bit and pay for marketplace healthcare coverage if absolutely necessary

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#252

Post by habitue » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:49 PM UTC

h2odragon wrote: post #149

thegginthesky wrote: post #74

I work for one of their competitors and I can empathize with them. My thoughts goes to all the employees and their families. The Freight business is collapsing after an unrealistic high during the pandemic. Since April 2022, revenue per load has decreased to about 70%, this means less ways to generate a profit under the same headcount. We also saw a decrease in volume as companies overstocked and consumer spending ha…

> consumer spending has shrunk to less than 50% of what it used to be and you're in a position to be concerned with the accuracy of your numbers, i assume. CNN Tuesday: "US retail sales rose in September for the sixth-straight month" https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/17/economy/retail-sales-septembe... ... id be interested in your thoughts on the apparent conflict of viewpoint there.

These seem consistent with each other:

During the pandemic and boom consumer spending was at X ("what it used to be")

Then it dropped a ton, though in recent months it's been increasing month over month. In fact, it's all the way back up to 50% of what it used to be!

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#253

Post by i_am_jl » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:50 PM UTC

fullshark wrote: post #150

legitster wrote: post #131

What would a buyer have even been purchasing in this scenario? A bunch of talented employees? Cool, they are all on the market anyway. A bunch of tiny commodity contracts? Why? A pile of code? Is it particularly hard to recreate? Valuations are having a big wake-up call across the industry. While a company can be more than the sum of its parts, VC-backed tech companies have really struggled in industries where unit-e…

Probably patents mostly, perhaps around some novel hardware the buyer wants to utilize.

They run a freight exchange platform linking truck drivers with people who need freight shipped. What hardware patents did they have?

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#254

Post by sangnoir » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:53 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #236

sangnoir wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they can do this, they can pay salaries another month If leadership decides to use the remaining funds on salaries rather than severance - then they should be judged on that! What good is buying one extra month for a doomed company? That month is more valuable to individual employees who can use it to look for new jobs

> What good is buying one extra month for a doomed company? You don't know it's doomed. Plenty of companies have turned around while running on fumes. This is fundamental to start-ups. > month is more valuable to individual employees who can use it to look for new jobs Everyone who lost their jobs at Convoy is eligible for unemployment. The same unemployment most workers get when they're fired. Perhaps the discussion…

> You don't know it's doomed.

It's swell when people gamble with employees well-being on the miniscule odds of a miracle. And even better idea is to offer severance, and those employees with the same appetite for risk can get additional options from the folks who leave. That'd be a win/win, except for the leadership who would rather gamble using other peoples chips but keep most of the winnings.

> Everyone who lost their jobs at Convoy is eligible for unemployment

Unemployment benefits don't come anywhere close to tech salaries! They take time to process.

> Perhaps the discussion should be around improving this benefit for everyone?

We can multitask. What is in my power to control is to avoid working with anyone associated with this decision and encourage everyone else to do the same - board-members and the entire C-Suite. We have a - let's call it poor culture fit

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#255

Post by alex_lav » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:53 PM UTC

benced wrote: post #72

vogt wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>CEO said there'll be no severance or healthcare. Classy. Learning a lot about how certain people treat their employees during these last couple of admittedly insane years. Good for future reference, I guess - though not much solace now. I feel for the employees. Edit: Wow, more responses than I thought! I admit that the tone of my comment was too reactionary, but my opinion stands. I won't modify the original commen…

Ex-Convoy employee here: if a company is shutting down, it obviously can't provide severance. It's not a matter of class or not.

> Ex-Convoy employee here: if a company is shutting down, it obviously can't provide severance. It's not a matter of class or not.

A statement that's just verifiably untrue. Companies that shut down provide severance all the time. It's just a matter of priority.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#256

Post by cyanydeez » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:54 PM UTC

benced wrote: post #72

vogt wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>CEO said there'll be no severance or healthcare. Classy. Learning a lot about how certain people treat their employees during these last couple of admittedly insane years. Good for future reference, I guess - though not much solace now. I feel for the employees. Edit: Wow, more responses than I thought! I admit that the tone of my comment was too reactionary, but my opinion stands. I won't modify the original commen…

Ex-Convoy employee here: if a company is shutting down, it obviously can't provide severance. It's not a matter of class or not.

You think they couldn't forecast this months in advance?

Parent is basically saying they gambled you sift landing and lost, as most psychopaths would.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#257

Post by alex_lav » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:54 PM UTC

justrealist wrote: post #111

apercu wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested in whether the C-level got any severance or healthcare....

Why do you assume the worst, with absolutely no information? The company is shutting down. I'd bet you a lot of money nobody gets anything.

> The company is shutting down. I'd bet you a lot of money nobody gets anything.

Let's define a lot and then I'll take this bet.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#258

Post by ericbarrett » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:55 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #232

nunez wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my understanding is correct, the idea behind cobra is to use it just-in-time for healthcare operations that are more expensive than the monthly premium, ie a $25k surgery + $15k hospital stay

That's a hack that is often described on HN, but the point of COBRA is, as the name suggests, continuity (originally, in part because pre-ACA an issurance gap itself had adverse consequences to future insurability, and acquiring private-market insurance isn’t typically instant, but also because people often have ongoing medical needs where a discontinuity in coverage could disrupt service, )

Yes—something people today might not know is that before the ACA, you could be denied insurance coverage for "pre-existing conditions," which in practice meant anything medically recorded before you were insured. Changing insurers (because you changed jobs) didn't reset this period, but having a gap over a certain length did—I believe it was 60 days. So it was very important to make sure you maintained coverage, or else your ongoing cancer/arteriosclerosis/diabetes/etc. treatment was suddenly 100% out of pocket.

Also, COBRA and medical insurance in general used to be a much smaller fraction of middle-class take home pay, so it was a lot more realistic to elect to pay it out of savings even if you weren't concerned about all the above.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#259

Post by kepano » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:57 PM UTC

It's the same story over and over (Deliverr, Flexport, Amazon, Shopify, etc)

1. the entire ecomm supply chain got way ahead of their skis during the pandemic thinking boom times would never end

2. no matter how good your software is, supply chain is cutthroat — a motivated low-tech salesperson can always undercut you

3. margins are razor thin, so if you're subsidizing prices with VC money to buy growth you can easily rug yourself

4. when the storm comes to supply chain, the ones who stay alive are those with the biggest balance sheet and diversified business (e.g. Amazon)

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#260

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 8:58 PM UTC

sangnoir wrote: post #254

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What good is buying one extra month for a doomed company? You don't know it's doomed. Plenty of companies have turned around while running on fumes. This is fundamental to start-ups. > month is more valuable to individual employees who can use it to look for new jobs Everyone who lost their jobs at Convoy is eligible for unemployment. The same unemployment most workers get when they're fired. Perhaps the discussion…

> You don't know it's doomed. It's swell when people gamble with employees well-being on the miniscule odds of a miracle. And even better idea is to offer severance, and those employees with the same appetite for risk can get additional options from the folks who leave. That'd be a win/win, except for the leadership who would rather gamble using other peoples chips but keep most of the winnings. > Everyone who lost t…

> It's swell when people gamble with employees well-being on the miniscule odds of a miracle

You don't know the odds ex ante! Again, they would have been roundly criticized if they'd prioritized severance (which means more for the highly paid) and preferred stockholders over their rank-and-file common holders.

> Unemployment benefits don't come anywhere close to tech salaries! They take time to process

You're arguing for special treatment of well-paid tech workers over e.g. truck drivers [1].

> What is in my power to control is to avoid working with anyone associated with this decision and encourage everyone else to do the same

The solution is to not work for a start-up. That, or gain empathy for the tens of millions of Americans who work for a restaurant or with variable hours or on contracts that provide them with zero heads up when business conditions change or their employer goes under.

[1] https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/08/09/51c3-a09.html