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Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

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Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#251
post #241
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds good, but since it is not EU based, my band and I will have to stay put. Good luck though. Competition is a good thing.

I'm not affiliated with Ampwall (or even American) but I'm curious what the objection is here?

(Usually) Better/more stable working conditions for workers in Europe compared to the US. Band could also just be based in EU and prefer the user-protections EU offers compared to the US.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#252

For some context, it’s important to understand the degree to which Bandcamp’s success and ubiquity with independent music is built on a people-first, anti-corporate culture. Bandcamp is an obsession for a very large and engaged segment of the independent music world. A good friend, a professional musician, told me “I feel like I’m watching my childhood home burn to the ground.” This is far from a unique sentiment. Pe…

It was building up since the original team sold to Epic. Can't trust after that. What is the difference of your service with eg. Deezer? Someone in another thread mentioned it offers lossless DRM-free downloads these days.

As a previous fan of Deezer, it's just another streaming platform. They do have high-quality streaming, but at the end of the day they'll squeeze stream monetization as much as possible, and you still don't own the music. We need a transparent, fair marketplace for musicians to sell their work that doesn't behold them to streaming providers + publishers.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#254
In any case anyone wants to read about a EU perspective:

Over here in Germany the "trick" of doing an asset deal to get rid of employees (and any benefits they may have earned over time) is very risky, and can fire back massively.

It's not a black-and-white thing, but the labor courts have check-lists:

- Are people at the new company work on the same tasks as they did in the old one? - Are people at the new company still using the old office space, and are seated where they were before? - Are salaries or work contracts near-identical? - ... and then some.

If you get a couple of "yes" here, you now are in a world of pain: In this case the whole transaction is regarded as a (not sure if that is a good translation of the German word "verdeckter Betriebsübergang") "hidden transfer of business", and you would suddenly automatically get ALL employees and benefits back, with no easy option to fire anyone afterwards. If someone had been at the previous company for 10 years, it legally would now be also have been employed for 10 years with the new company.

This is why the asset deal trick to get rid of employees is only done by very uneducated managers over here :)

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IT Teacher (professor) part of a union here. Unions in the U.S. are incredibly weak. U.S. unions can barely represent, much less collectively bargain. That's why software engineers keep failing to unionize. My union wants to pay tenured CS/IT folks less than non-tenured English Professors. English profs here had the biggest raise in decades, going from 62k to 80k. They want to pay IT/CS profs 69k. Where I am (Seattle…

Software engineers fail to unionize because most of them know it’s a bad deal. Tenure in and of itself has 0 to do with your value as a software engineer. But yes your point is right on in that the unions are useless. In large part because they are a corrupt themselves and their grift is taking a vig on employment.

I think you're doing downvoted because you put words into the parent comments now that weren't there. They didn't say unions are useless. They said American unions are weak. The implications are very different.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#256
post #97

I find it so weird to read these stories on how Americans cope with unionizing. In the Netherlands where I live it is very common and normal to be member of a union. Most branches have a union, IT sector is a "free sector" and does not have a union. My wife works as a teacher and she is member of a union.

American unions are not like European unions. In Europe sectoral unions and sectoral bargaining is the norm. In the US federal law does not allow that. Each firm must unionize individually. In the US unions and enterprices play zero sum game against each other. If the firm unionizes, the firm loses relative to non-unionized competition. Example: the current UAW (United Auto Workers) dispute in the US. If UAW wins, un…

> If UAW wins, unionized enterprises lose to Tesla.

how does that work?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#257
post #251
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not affiliated with Ampwall (or even American) but I'm curious what the objection is here?

(Usually) Better/more stable working conditions for workers in Europe compared to the US. Band could also just be based in EU and prefer the user-protections EU offers compared to the US.

Bandcamp was/is American too, though. Bandcamp was fine, but this isn't?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because one day you won’t be high performing and you’d like to have some protection for your job? Among many other reasons…

Is this a direct admission that unions are for protecting low-performers? Because if yes, that’s not a good look for them at all and is kind of a perfect ammo for the anti-union side.

Unions are a protection for both high performers and low performers.

I don't think they should offer protection for non-performers – outside of situations where a life event has mad a performer a non-performer for some reasonable amount of time.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#259
post #97

I find it so weird to read these stories on how Americans cope with unionizing. In the Netherlands where I live it is very common and normal to be member of a union. Most branches have a union, IT sector is a "free sector" and does not have a union. My wife works as a teacher and she is member of a union.

American unions are not like European unions. In Europe sectoral unions and sectoral bargaining is the norm. In the US federal law does not allow that. Each firm must unionize individually. In the US unions and enterprices play zero sum game against each other. If the firm unionizes, the firm loses relative to non-unionized competition. Example: the current UAW (United Auto Workers) dispute in the US. If UAW wins, un…

This is not correct. The current UAW strike is to get back benefits the union voluntarily gave up during the 2008 recession because they wanted to keep the Big 3 alive. The union is absolutely willing to bargain in a way that is beneficial to both employees and the companies long term.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#260
post #57

I find it so weird to read these stories on how Americans cope with unionizing. In the Netherlands where I live it is very common and normal to be member of a union. Most branches have a union, IT sector is a "free sector" and does not have a union. My wife works as a teacher and she is member of a union.

IT doesn’t traditionally gafe unions in the USA. Teachers are unionized here and are one of the most powerful political forces. They are also a likely reason why so many people here don’t like unions.

Teacher's unions, along with UAW and police unions are good examples of how people don't like unions in the US.
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