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LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

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Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#251

Post by JohnFen »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #181
JohnFen wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's no more extortiony than how employers treat their employees. Collective bargaining is pretty much the only tool workers have to even begin to correct the power differential between employer and employee. Ideally, it allows employees and employers to negotiate on more equal terms than is otherwise possible.

> Collective bargaining is pretty much the only tool workers have No, it isn’t. There is the individual threat of quitting. And there are the courts.

Neither of those are effective for the vast majority of workers.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#252

Post by WalterBright »

FireBeyond wrote: post #235
WalterBright wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't? Employers cannot fire striking employees. Or fire any that may look like retaliation for union activity. > And to forbid employees from working elsewhere That's simply not true.

> They don't? Employers cannot fire striking employees. Or fire any that may look like retaliation for union activity. Who said anything about that? Scab labor is an extremely common thing. How you come to the conclusion that "the company is not allowed to hire other people to replace the striking workers", I'm entirely unsure. For two very popular examples, both in the air travel industry, both pilot's strikes and A…

Moonlighting is not the same thing as getting another job elsewhere.

The ATC was a special case. It was illegal for them to strike, they struck anyway, so Reagan fired them.

"It shall be unlawful for any employer willingly and knowingly to utilize any professional strikebreaker to replace an employee or employees involved in a strike or lockout at a place of business located within this state. 1134.2."

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#253

Post by WalterBright »

coolspot wrote: post #245
WalterBright wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protectionism means you're protecting inefficient industries. In a global marketplace, this means industries in other countries will out-compete yours.

Usually they out-compete yours because they burn coal and you have to buy solar, they commute in packed trains while you drive tesla to work, they live in tiny apartments, while your house has a backyard and frontyard.

Protectionism is not a fix for comparative advantage. Regardless of the motives for protectionism, it will make your economy less competitive and less prosperous.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#254

Post by berdario »

ss1996 wrote: post #89
huytersd wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn’t they? It’s like 7-10x cheaper.

The difference is much lesser 7-10x in big tech (Google, Amazon, Msft, etc). Big tech's Indian offices pays about 1/3 to 1/4 of what they would earn in the company's USA office. Levels.fyi will corroborate this. Yes, while the average software engineer in India might earn 7-10x less than in the US, this isn't the case within major tech companies.

Google L3 SWE in BLR: 36k

https://www.levels.fyi/offer/4bb28696-b3a9-430e-af6b-87e139b...

Google L4 SWE in BLR: 64k

https://www.levels.fyi/offer/3631ce80-f5fa-41e3-bd22-192a98a...

Google L3 SWE in Bay Area: 236k

https://www.levels.fyi/offer/8cb64099-ffcf-437f-baa3-a88ae7d...

Google L4 SWE in Bay Area: 260k

https://www.levels.fyi/offer/4468e21b-6650-4e6c-948b-e90ea1d...

That's a difference between 4x and 6.5x

I think that your 3x difference is definitely a lower bound, and it'll be closer to 6.5x than to 3x or 4x most of the time (though I don't see aggregated data per-company, per-region in levels.fyi (but I didn't bother logging in)

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#255

Post by cryptonector »

WalterBright wrote: post #192
cryptonector wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think so, before I understood that we live in a mercantilist world economy. I still think protectionism would be bad in a less distorted economy, and I think it's bad in as-distorted an economy as ours (because people who are subjected to pressure are more likely to be adaptive and dynamic), but it's harder to make the case, don't you think?

Protectionism means you're protecting inefficient industries. In a global marketplace, this means industries in other countries will out-compete yours.

What I meant is that in mercantilist world you do have asymmetrical protectionism, and that has real-world effects that require more thought than simply standing by the free market position, because it's not a free market even if you try on your end.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#256

Post by berdario »

pb7 wrote: post #146
berdario wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First waves of layoffs are famously more generous with their severance agreements than the following ones. They are already not as generous as they could be (for example, Google on January 20th boasted about accelerated vesting for the notice period of US employees that would be laid off... But employees in other regions didn't get the same terms) ...and they are going to get worse and worse, with future layoffs

>employees in other regions didn't get the same terms Yep, that's what happens when you have labor laws that dictate the terms. It cuts both ways.

You're doubly wrong:

1- the laws dictate minimum terms for the agreements, they don't put ceilings on the maximums

2- the regions in which employees got shafted in that way aren't the regions in which employment laws are stricter

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#257

Post by q7xvh97o2pDhNrh »

throwaway9191aa wrote: post #120
LewisVerstappen wrote: post #3

> LinkedIn is now ramping up hiring in India, according the person familiar. So, laying off people in the US and hiring in India?

This is something my company's internal RTO channels seem to have missed. What if large corporations really *did* collect enough data during covid to justify working from home? Now faang can justify outsourcing the rest of US based jobs. Force RTO in the US, replace those who leave with less expensive resources.

This is actually a brilliant bit of insight/tinfoil that I'd totally missed, largely because all the things that FAANGs have been saying to justify RTO have been so daft.

You're totally right, though. If the data shows that RTO has negligible benefit — or even, say, just a marginal 5-10% benefit — then the logical move is to force RTO for the most expensive headcount (since a 5% boost there will be the most valuable) and then hire globally-remote headcount for all the rest.

That... really feels quite grim, the more I think about it. Time to go stare at my early-retirement spreadsheets and see where I can squeeze out some more velocity for myself, I suppose.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#258

Post by muzz »

LewisVerstappen wrote: post #3

> LinkedIn is now ramping up hiring in India, according the person familiar. So, laying off people in the US and hiring in India?

Salaries in India have increased a lot-- they used to be one-tenth that of Silicon Valley but now they are more than one-third and closing in on one-half

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#259

Post by asadotzler »

tiffanyh wrote: post #203
coldpie wrote: post #4

Good news for those 700: because we don't have tech worker unions, they are able to individually bargain the terms of their layoff! ...right?

When FANNG companies payout upwards of $1M/year/engineer - seems hard to understand why an employee would need a union.

When the NBA pays its players tens of millions of dollars a year - seems hard to understand why an NBA player would need a union.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#260

Post by bluGill »

paxys wrote: post #174
bluGill wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot fly and be there with 2 hours notice though. Sometimes flights are full and you can't get there at all with less than a few weeks notice. Often you can, but the cost for same day tickets can be very high. Planning months in advance is done all the time, but it is hard. It is always easier to plan if you can look at the current most urgent project list and pick the top item. if you have to plan what will be o…

To me the biggest advantage of WFH is that I can choose to live in an area that fits my lifestyle and needs. If a company says "you can work from home but be near the office so that we can call you in whenever we want with zero notice" then that isn't really a remote job. In fact it is the worst of both worlds, because you lose the flexibility of being remote as well as the community and perks of an office.

There are lots of in betweens i'm not going to call any right or wrong, just that whf with fairly quick access to the office is a useful one.
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