The Techno-Optimist Manifesto • Hacker News Board

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#251

Post by survirtual » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 4:30 AM UTC

semitones wrote: post #228

survirtual wrote: post #169

In a world where abundance reigns, the old structures and the leaders who champion them fade into obsolescence. The energy that once went into seeking more begins to flow into sharing, nurturing, and sustaining. In this transformed landscape, resource hoarding and centralized control are not just out of place; they become barriers to the collective human journey toward wisdom and spiritual fulfillment. When everyone'…

It seems that you are describing a utopia, where there are no more problems to solve, other than the purpose of our own existence, and the reconciliation of our mortality in our minds. Although I do think that we can get to a point where things are pretty damn good, perhaps even as good as you describe, I don't think that humans' desire for growth and appetite for problem solving will be quenched. Even if all of our…

While the term 'utopia' might imply a final state of perfection, what I describe is more akin to an inevitable transformation, one that you can almost sense unfolding around us. Machine intelligence is advancing at an unprecedented pace, economic landscapes are shifting, and sociopolitical tensions are reaching critical points. This is not the end of a journey but a metamorphosis toward a different way of life.

Unlike a utopia, which suggests a static state where all problems are solved, this new paradigm acknowledges the insatiable human drive for growth and problem-solving. It doesn't eliminate challenges; it redefines them. In a world where our basic and even our complex needs are met, our focus would naturally shift to grander scales—planetary defense, interstellar travel, and even the quest for existential understanding. However, the metrics of value and systems of exchange that govern this new reality would be fundamentally different, rendering current techno-capitalist forces obsolete in their traditional forms.

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#252

Post by zapw » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 4:36 AM UTC

This was strange and disappointing thing to read. Why such a conspiratorial tone ("we are being lied to", "we have enemies", etc.)?

Since this is written by Marc Andreessen, I did a search for "crypto" and "web 3", but no results came up. Isn't that strange coming from someone who was so prominent in promoting and advocating for a crypto-based future? I guess that one didn't pan out…

"Our enemy is the ivory tower" is a bit rich coming from a billionaire who lives in one of the most exclusive California communities (and vociferously opposes any development in that community, despite loudly proselytizing to others that "it's time to build").

Looking at the "Patron Saints", after skipping the meme-posting pseudonymous Twitter accounts, I am pretty sure university professor is the most common profession. The ivory tower is the enemy indeed. And it does seem distasteful to use the names of dead scientists and intellectuals like John Von Neumann and Richard Feynman to burnish the image of this polemic.

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#253

Post by malthaus » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 4:46 AM UTC

i can't take a16z seriously ever since they were a major driver of all the pump & dump crypto crap, publishing a grandiose manifesto doesn't really help with the perception of being bullshit merchants.

stop listening to people just because they have money, it's not a measure for greatness and definitely not as reason to give them any credibility outside of their expertise.

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#254

Post by carapace » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 4:51 AM UTC

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #244

ericzawo wrote: post #227

"Love doesn't scale" is crazy.

Incredibly good line.

It's beyond stupid. Literally we have families and children out of love. It's the foundation of everything else in human society.

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#255

Post by carapace » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 4:59 AM UTC

carapace wrote: post #50

Gosh this is weird. So many of the points here seem really good and important, yet many of the other points here are so distorted as to be almost unrecognizable. It reads to me like bad religion. E.g. he knows about the Aral sea and yet argues against the "Precautionary Principle"!? (It seems strange to me to mention the Aral sea as an example of Soviet ecological incompetence, which it surely is, but then fail to me…

I want to change my comment (but the edit window is long gone.)

This "manifesto" is batshit insane.

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#256

Post by shadowgovt » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 5:02 AM UTC

When writing a manifesto about embracing the benefits of change through technology, maybe don't use as your first analogy an animal whose gross anatomy hasn't changed in 450 million years.

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#257

Post by carapace » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 5:03 AM UTC

ethanbond wrote: post #172

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but boy does this lack of self-awareness just shout “distance yourself and run, don’t walk!” This feels a bit of an extreme reaction to me, I don't try and read into gotchas in writing and use them to "run away". Instead it makes me: 1. View the writing with skepticism 2. Try to understand what Andreessen thinks makes him not one of those ivory tower figures, because I certainly think of him as one. 2 seems the mor…

The “wanting to distance oneself” is an extremely pragmatic reaction: if you believe similar arguments need to be made, you have a legitimate interest in putting forth good versions of those arguments. He has a big platform and this will be portrayed as “the case” for techno-optimism, not to mention the attitude and tone. I’m not really sure what the purpose of publishing something like this is. It doesn’t really see…

> I’m not really sure what the purpose of publishing something like this is. It doesn’t really seem intended to convince anyone of anything? Is the controversy the point? Galvanizing some “base?”

The only thing that makes sense to me (other than he simply is that out of touch) is that he's actually trying to recruit followers to a new religion and so he actively wants to attract people with poor critical thinking skills.

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#258

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 5:04 AM UTC

[deleted]

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#259

Post by RandomLensman » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 5:09 AM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #239

TheLegace wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you have been on the other side of what market makers do, but its not exactly a day at the beach. Once you gain enough insight to see whats going on the charts you just see it as a graveyard of traders positions, stop losses and their capital. This happens every minute the market is open at every timeframe. Have you ever wonder why the markets appear so irrational? Great economic data and the worse dr…

I think you intended to reply to me (GP), not the parent. You're ignoring my objection to this stuff, which has nothing to do with immorality and everything to do with with the waste and misdirection of resources. Why do people participate in this stuff? Because someone might get rich. From my POV, that's a waste and misdirection of resources. People getting rich is not the right motivation for pareto or utilitarian…

People are entitled to do things that are not an optimal resource allocation. Social systems that block that tend be very nasty.

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#260

Post by nl » Tue, Oct 17, 2023, 5:11 AM UTC

m-ee wrote: post #235

colatkinson wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah to be honest I think approvingly quoting the author of "The Fascist Manifesto" probably well exceeds the cutoff for "dogwhistle." At this point the only thing left is for a16z to start a youth brigade and invade Ethiopia.

Marc did a podcast chatting about tv shows with fascist and white supremamcist Richard Hanania, so maybe I shouldn't have been as surprised as I was to see that. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/richard-hanania-white-suprema...

This is very troubling, because Hanania is a genuine white supremacist.

But it turns out he hid it well, and that HuffPost expose only came out two years after the Andreessen podcast, so it's reasonable to think he didn't know.

And on the podcast Andreessen makes a pretty strong criticism of the Right (as well as the left):

> And the main principle of the right is that it hates the left. This is the old Buckley thing: the role of conservatism is to stand athwart history yelling stop. Which from the right you view as all social change happening around us is from the left, driving things further to the left. They’re all leading societies in directions the left thinks they should go, and that those things are bad because they’re against tradition, history, the way things have always worked and things that have been proven.

> So I think technology kind of gets trapped up in this dynamic. To your point, the left hates technology because they hate capitalism because they hate markets because they’re anti-egalitarian, we kind of slot naturally into that critique. And the right hates technology because it seems like technology is a tool of the left.