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Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

newsroom.toyota.eu

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Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#251

Post by threeseed »

manxman wrote: post #215
threeseed wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's yet another Japanese zombie corporation that's lost its way Toyota's revenue is up 24.2% since last year [1]. I think Tesla would love to be a zombie corporation with those numbers. [1] https://pressroom.toyota.com/tmc-announces-april-through-jun...

Revenue is vanity. Profit is sanity. Many a large corporation had revenue growth even when the writing was on the wall for their business model.

Operating income increased from 0.578 trillion yen ($4.5 billion) to 1.120 trillion yen ($8.2 billion).

Which ever way you look at it Toyota is hardly struggling as a company.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#252

Post by m-p-3 »

thiago_fm wrote: post #160

I hope they are successful on this. Japanese carmakers are really good and well-disciplined on building it with quality and also cheaply, I'm really excited about what they'll bring. I've always enjoyed Toyotas, I have one. Toyotas are always cheaper than the alternative and extremely reliable.

> Toyotas are always cheaper than the alternative

From my last time shopping they weren't the cheaper at purchase time, but I do agree that they're reliable and I haven't spent a lot of money for repair so far, and when I do the parts aren't very expensive nor difficult to find.

So I'd say the total cost of ownership is likely cheaper than the alternative, and they also hold their value well compared to other brands.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#253

Post by jeffbee »

jbm wrote: post #248
jeffbee wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dug a grave of irrelevance A grave of irrelevance so deep that they are the world's largest automaker and their net margins just hit an all-time high. Sometimes I do wonder from which planet these HN remarks are sent.

Some of us remember when people similarly said that about GM. Regardless, we'll see what happens in 5 years. The best outcome is that they are truthful about this development.

Some of us probably have very warped perceptions about what happened to the Big 3, since humans are susceptible to The Narrative®. GM has never lost its market share leader position in America, and the Big 3 had majority market share until 2008. This, despite the fact that they manufactured pure garbage from 1971-present. That is why I try not to call anything too early. If you had looked at the situation in 1965 and said "50 years from now, Japan and US will contend for market leadership" that would have been accurate. If you had said then "GM has buried itself in a grave of irrelevance", you would have been extremely wrong.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#254

Post by audunw »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #242
jeffbee wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The all-time, cumulative amount of batteries sold in Toyota hybrid cars is similar in scale to the amount of batteries ever sold by Tesla. Until about 2 years ago, Toyota was ahead in this metric.

Sure, Tesla has hybrid sales of zero. It doesn't make golf cart battery packs and electric bike motors. Toyota is great at making (buying off the shelf) those things and connecting them to gas motors. However, toyota is not great at making EVs and only now is releasing their first (very mediocre) EV. Probably because a hybrid and EV are very different under the hood.

Not their first. They were actually quite early with an EV. Though I can understand if you don’t think it counts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#255

Post by audunw »

hakcermani wrote: post #244
Arnt wrote: post #212

Ten minutes. Is that lots of kW from the charger, or does it already pass 1MW?

.. possibly a battery swap, a domestic setting getting to those MWs is out of the question. a 200 amp circuit in US at 220v is just about 44KW ..

Nobody has ever said you’d put a fast charger in your house or at work.

Getting 1MW to a commercial fast charging station is not crazy. Plenty of fast charging stations have that kind of connection. But distributed over multiple chargers of course.

What you see these days is, say, 150kW shared with t who cables. If you’re the only one charging you get 150kW. If there’s another car you get 75kW. If we ever get to 1MW I think that’ll be the model. Should still be quite beneficial since if people finish their charging faster you’ll also have more instances where you’re not sharing capacity with others.

As batteries get cheaper we’ll also see more stations with battery packs to provide peak power to those super fast charging cars.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#256

Post by dzhiurgis »

jeffbee wrote: post #220
Workaccount2 wrote: post #197

Toyota has been going hard on this story, no surprise since they dug a grave of irrelevance by anchoring themselves to hydrogen for decades. Even when it was clear EVs were the future and interest in hydrogen was barely registering. Also no surprise that they have nothing to show except a "just wait 5 years!".

> dug a grave of irrelevance A grave of irrelevance so deep that they are the world's largest automaker and their net margins just hit an all-time high. Sometimes I do wonder from which planet these HN remarks are sent.

A planet where you’d be fool to buy a dumb ice car, where Tesla’s competition is cringe or a complete joke

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#257

Post by Workaccount2 »

audunw wrote: post #254
Workaccount2 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, Tesla has hybrid sales of zero. It doesn't make golf cart battery packs and electric bike motors. Toyota is great at making (buying off the shelf) those things and connecting them to gas motors. However, toyota is not great at making EVs and only now is releasing their first (very mediocre) EV. Probably because a hybrid and EV are very different under the hood.

Not their first. They were actually quite early with an EV. Though I can understand if you don’t think it counts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV

Yes, I was wrong, it counts.

Now please address their sales of EVs.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#258

Post by warble »

the-dude wrote: post #196

This is a peculiar marketing strategy. This 'news' has been pushed about every month in the last ~6 months, and even before in 2021 there have been similar 'stories'. But there is no battery. But they are near. Here is one from 2021 : https://www.motortrend.com/news/toyota-battery-bev-hev-solid... Enter the rabbit hole : https://hn.algolia.com/?q=toyota+battery

Not to mention that this kind of range isn't helpful, it would be much more useful to make the battery smaller and lighter and stay with a 300 mile range. The vehicle would be cheaper and much more efficient overall. This is the kind of headline a marketing department would write.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#259

Post by j45 »

mikestew wrote: post #207
j45 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read into it some more Toyota has had this tech for a while, it’s real and it seems to work. Since battery life like this might be a step change, it will leave most EV manufacturers behind if they don’t have an answer. EV buyers may want to consider a used EV until new tech comes out, since old or current tech is not always worth paying new prices for. It might also be a factor in the relationship between Toyo…

EV buyers may want to consider a used EV until new tech comes out I'm not basing my purchase decisions on pie-in-the-sky press releases from Toyota and wild-ass guesses from some random person on the Internet. Build a car, Toyota, then we'll talk. Or maybe I'll just buy a Tesla instead, I've heard that their "Full Self-Driving" is just a few months away.

I get your "standard".

It's why my recommendation is to actually go look at Toyota's tech. It's not hypothetical or in development. Their solid state batteries are known to exist and be ready to go.

"I think I found Toyota's battery" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36980630

Which refers to " https://www.nature.com/articles/s41563-022-01421-z"

Maybe some patenting stuff under way? I don't know.

Toyota did predict this for a few years ago but things were shut down for the pandemic.

Fun reads: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=toyota+battery

Older teslas driving features are more reliable than the current ones. It sounds like training the AI driving systems with synthetic data is helping speed up progress. Another fn area to read.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#260

Post by j45 »

Libcat99 wrote: post #234
j45 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read into it some more Toyota has had this tech for a while, it’s real and it seems to work. Since battery life like this might be a step change, it will leave most EV manufacturers behind if they don’t have an answer. EV buyers may want to consider a used EV until new tech comes out, since old or current tech is not always worth paying new prices for. It might also be a factor in the relationship between Toyo…

> EV buyers may want to consider a used EV until new tech comes out, since old or current tech is not always worth paying new prices for. Sounds like exactly what Toyota is hoping for with regular press releases like this. Shutting down competitors electric sales while consumers wait for this someday-tech would be fantastic for Toyota. Until you can buy it, it's meaningless at best.

See links above.

I don't disagree Toyota drags their feet updating their existing cars, let alone new ones.

One big move is they did sign that deal with Tesla to adopt the supercharging standard for electric. Hopefully that speeds things up.

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