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UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

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Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#251

Post by mkl95 »

programmer_dude wrote: post #236
mkl95 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about other areas, but in the West the overlap between credit card users and people who can get a decent loan at a <10% interest rate is very high. Which is why for most credit card users, credit is a no go if they are not paying it back quickly. UPI counterpart's use case is to send a bit of money to your friend when you share a meal etc.

You have to remember to pay back your credit card debt before the clock runs out. Once you make a UPI payment the transaction ends there (because the money is debited from your bank account and you are not taking on a conditional loan). You don't have to remember to pay the UPI company anything after the fact. I hope this explains how UPI is different from credit cards.

> You have to remember to pay back your credit card debt before the clock runs out

In my experience paying with credit is a fire and forget action, since the money is debited automatically at the end of the month, with no interest. The UX is great, since it only takes a card swipe [as long as I have the funds to pay it back and I'm within my credit limit].

In an scenario where you are not debited right away, I agree completely. But I would only expect that to happen by accident or if the user lacks the financial literacy to understand there are better ways to buy whatever they want. I may be missing some financial corner cases.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#252

Post by berkes »

captn3m0 wrote: post #225
kmlx wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the rest of the planet" doesnt accept visa/Mastercard just anywhere most of the developed world does. even Eastern Europe have transformed themselves into a NFC bonanza. > The Netherlands the netherlands is the wrong example. it has always been an outlier when it comes to card payments. case in point: you can't even make a Visa/Mastercard payment in an AH supermarket, you need a Maestro card. > The world is not the…

I paid almost eveywhere in Amsterdam with my Indian Visa card and it worked quite well. Even the GBV Transport network lets you use NFC cards directly, without having to buy a separate card or ticket. You get a charge 6 days later after they tally up your trips. I like UPI, but paying with NFC Cards is so much simpler, easier, and faster.

Amsterdam is a tourist hub. And even in Amsterdam, local focused places, like supermarkets or a pharmacy will often only take maestro.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#253

Post by blueblisters »

davelondon wrote: post #125

I was in India earlier this year, and found there was no way (and I spent hours trying) for a foreigner to get access to the UPI system. This meant: 1) There were some cashless fast food outlets that I couldn't eat at 2) There was no way for me to book an intercity bus ticket I eventually managed to get a bus ticket by sweet-talking someone in a shop to use their personal UPI account in exchange for cash. I fear ther…

I have friends who are Indians living outside. They don’t have a UPI account and find it difficult to get around when they visit India for a few weeks. The simplest solution would be an app that can use a credit card to load to a UPI compatible wallet. I’m guessing the market is not big enough for such a use case or the regulations are too onerous.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#254

Post by sudshekhar »

signal11 wrote: post #245
sudshekhar wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mentioned this on the parent thread, but there are new UPI apps coming out in the market which don't need a bank account. https://chequpi.com/ For example

This looks really promising, thank you. (And oh, it’s a YC company!) https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7094460... Is there a page which lists others like this?

https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/3rd-party-apps

https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/ppi-apps

These two links list all the approved UPI apps in the Indian fintech market. As you can see, the ecosystem is vibrant and ever-growing :)

We are the first ones to focus exclusively on serving foreigners and NRIs in India and have issued the most number of international wallets till date.

Fave app and First Rupi(from IDFC) are alternatives you can try if interested.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#255

Post by chupchap »

kmlx wrote: post #159
davelondon wrote: post #125

I was in India earlier this year, and found there was no way (and I spent hours trying) for a foreigner to get access to the UPI system. This meant: 1) There were some cashless fast food outlets that I couldn't eat at 2) There was no way for me to book an intercity bus ticket I eventually managed to get a bus ticket by sweet-talking someone in a shop to use their personal UPI account in exchange for cash. I fear ther…

> I was in India earlier this year, and found there was no way (and I spent hours trying) for a foreigner to get access to the UPI system. never been to India. do they not support credit cards like the rest of the planet? visa/mastercard/amex? only UPI?

It is accepted in most restaurants and shops, but for transactions of lower amounts UPI is preferred due to the fee involved with visa and mastercard

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#256

Post by avianlyric »

kmlx wrote: post #216
avianlyric wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa/Mastercard aren’t as ubiquitous as people imagine, despite Visa/Mastercard trying to acquire their way to global market dominance. The are many developed and developing countries that operate their own card networks, peer-to-peer payment technologies, and generally cheaper faster alternatives to Mastercard/Visa, with many merchants preferring them to their U.S. counterparts. Visa/Mastercard may have dominance in…

> In reality alternatives like UPI and other peer-to-peer systems are more likely to be the payment systems of the future. i find that very hard to believe as the user interaction for qr codes is a step backwards from using an nfc with a phone’s wallet. and once you use the nfc solution it’s very hard to switch back to a system that is less friendly. of course, if you take the QR codes out of the equation and replace…

> of course, if you take the QR codes out of the equation and replace with NFC then i see no issues.

There’s no reason p2p payments can’t operate over NFC. It’s just a short distance communication technology, it’s little more than an implementation detail in a payment network, and not significant to fundamental operation or economics of a payment network.

The fact Mastercard/Visa have a monopoly on NFC payments on phones is a big reason why the EU is investigating ApplePay and Apple NFC API restrictions.

> you are wrong. if anything the system is getting more widely used. europe for example has very advanced banking infra and is all in on nfc

I don’t think you appreciate the timeline here. Contactless payments have existed in Europe for over a decade, it basically at peak adoption already. Alternative P2P payments and technology like OpenBanking is only just getting started, and Mastercard/Visa are already worried, they’ve already made big acquisitions in Open Banking tech and alternative payment networks to ensure they don’t get cut out of the profits long term.

Ultimately payment technologies are chosen by merchants, not customers. If alternatives offer cheaper payments, and more importantly, faster merchant settlement, then merchants are going to start exploring those options. If companies like Apple are forced to open up their NFC stacks, and let others build alternative wallet and payment networks on them, then Mastercard/Visa current technical advantage will disappear very quickly.

That very advanced banking infra you speak off will forms the backbone of alternative payment technologies, why would anyone want to pay a middleman for a service their bank can provide directly, and provide much cheaper?

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#257

Post by beebeepka »

konschubert wrote: post #250
beebeepka wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy that a country as populous is acting so prudent.

How so?

Hmm, where do I begin?

1. Bringing a mic and camera equipped device to the bathroom.

2. Accepting video calls from naked people.

3. Acting ashamed for having a naked person on screen.

I tried to make a joke because the premise sounds crazy and extremely hypocritical to me.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#258

Post by signal11 »

sudshekhar wrote: post #254
signal11 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks really promising, thank you. (And oh, it’s a YC company!) https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7094460... Is there a page which lists others like this?

https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/3rd-party-apps https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/ppi-apps These two links list all the approved UPI apps in the Indian fintech market. As you can see, the ecosystem is vibrant and ever-growing :) We are the first ones to focus exclusively on serving foreigners and NRIs in India and have issued the most number of international wallets till date. Fave app and First Rupi(from…

> We are the first ones to focus exclusively on serving foreigners and NRIs in India and have issued the most number of international wallets till date.

Awesome! I look forward to trying out your app!

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#259

Post by avinashv »

n_ary wrote: post #49
sidcool wrote: post #2

The scale of UPI payments is unprecedented. Perhaps the best payment system in the world by far. My friends who come from US are always awe struck by the pervasiveness and easy of use of UPI payments. They want it so bad in the West!

Not sure about US, here in Germany, I really love the tap-pay(NFC based) usually everywhere(except some random kebab shops). It simply works regardless of me having an Android/iPhone or simply just a the nfc enabled card. I don’t need to open another account, fumble with one-more-app or anything. Also apple-pay appears to mask my CC/DC number as well, so better safety. I want it everywhere badly in west as well as ea…

> I want it everywhere badly in west as well as east and middle(-east).

It's already there.

With the exception of the US, almost every country I've traveled to in the Middle East, Asia, and Europe has tap-pay enabled. The Middle East has virtually everyone paying with their phones via NFC. In India Apple Pay doesn't work but when I travel there I can use my phone every time. NFC cards are also the norm.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#260

Post by iDon »

sudshekhar wrote: post #208
signal11 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) is somewhat impractical, because it’s easy to miss the airport desk which does this, and if you miss the opportunity it’s not easy to go back there (Indian airports don’t really allow you back in if you’ve exited) 2) opening an account isn’t practical for tourists, but of course if you’re living in India for even a short while, it’s worth it. 3) Allegedly UPI will work for NRIs / OCIs with foreign phone numbers. I…

Mentioned this on the parent thread, but there are new UPI apps coming out in the market which don't need a bank account. https://chequpi.com/ For example

I used the Cheq app to make UPI payments via smartphone / QR code, during a holiday in India in July. The app listed locations for completing the Know Your Customer (KYC) process - I did this at Transcorp in Bengaluru. It was worth the effort - it is far more convenient than cash in most cases. Most vendors kept little change, and even restaurants were not keen on receiving a 500R note for a 200R meal. Similarly for museums, art galleries, historic buildings. Auto-rickshaw drivers were happy with cash, and had a reasonable amount of change. I did find a couple of vendors who weren't registered as merchants for UPI, and I could only transfer to merchants, not other users. For travellers I'd suggest setting up UPI beforehand if possible; as mentioned you can do it as you fly in (Thomas Cook offers this service in the airport), but the KYC might take a while.

(Side-tracking from payments to SIMs : ) Several historic buildings had an online-only ticket process with a QR code displayed outside. The user experience of the websites was variable (navigating the forms and input widgets on a phone while standing in the street could be trying), and they required a lot of information, eg. Passport number and sometimes home address, usually including authentication via one time password sent to mobile phone number and possibly they only work for Indian SIMs. Those sites accepted credit card payment, including international. I couldn't count the number of times I gave my phone number, for all sorts of purposes, e.g. when checking in my phone at a temple, I was photographed and gave my number - simple id and method for finding the phone among all the others (when I realised that I switched the phone back on). And for all of these a local phone number is required, so pick up a local SIM at the airport or in the city. I did both, and I think the airport process was quicker. They do require full id for SIMs, including a local address, e.g. a hotel. A 28-day SIM cost only 299 rupees so I got a second one for increased coverage and capacity, because the networks are over-subscribed. (That's less than the daily rate at home). A dual-SIM phone makes that easy, and I could also run with one local SIM and my home SIM to receive SMSs. I was able to download maps and apps while travelling on buses and trains, and use tracking apps - which helped with knowing when a bus was approaching my stop.

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