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Prisoners of Google Android development

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Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#251

Post by scarface_74 »

anders_p wrote: post #247
scarface_74 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ads, Auth and analytics So two of the three parts that are native are there to make it a worse user experience?

If you seriously think analytics makes for a worse user experience, then you're speaking out of ignorance. Analytics tell developers exactly where bugs and crashes occur. And on which devices or versions of the OS the problem is. Without analytics it would take weeks/months to figure out exactly what line of code is causing the issue. Heck, the developers might NEVER KNOW that the software has an issue. Apps would ju…

But if he needed to have ads, what are the chances that analytics were added to “measure engagement”?

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#252

Post by c-hendricks »

siva7 wrote: post #221
jarm0 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually nowadays it's not that bad anymore. Android browser itself offers installable PWA and there is an event called beforeinstallprompt event ( https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Window/befo... ), which can be used to perform PWA installation on user interaction. Of course it's not supported in every browser. iOS is more difficult since user needs to understand that "saving to home screen" is same a…

That’s not a PWA. Saving to home screen literally creates a link shortcut which just opens a new tab on your safari app. Apple never supported PWAs.

This is incorrect.

If the app is a valid PWA, it's displayed like any other app on your device. There is no browser UI, it gets its own entry in your app switcher, etc.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#253

Post by anders_p »

scarface_74 wrote: post #246
anders_p wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? The WHOLE POINT of native apps is that they are better at integrating with the system. Like access storage, gps, camera, accelerometer/gyroscope, etc. Besides that the only benefit of a native app is basically that the UI/UX will be closer to what the user is accustomed to.

> Besides that the only benefit of a native app is basically that the UI/UX will be closer to what the user is accustomed to. You realize you’re still not exactly making your case for web apps right?

You do understand that not every developer is backed by billions of dollars of venture capital, right?

That there are people who have to target multiple operating systems, and don't have 100+ people working on their team, right?

I mean...it doesn't take a genius to figure out that there's a benefit to being able to write code once and deploy to ALL users/customers without having to dedicate entire teams of developers with expertise in various platforms.

I'm an Android developer with 10+ years of experience. I take pride in my native apps that I code for the company I work for. They are far superior to any web app or "multiplatform framework solution".

But if I had to create my own personal app, there's no way in hell I'd spend years learning everything it would take to create a native iOS, Windows, Linux, MacOS version.

I'd be an absolute idiot if I didn't just choose a solution, like a web app, or framework that was able to output for more systems, etc.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#254

Post by TexanFeller »

anders_p wrote: post #244
scarface_74 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This app also doesn't have any integration with the system And this is suppose to be an argument for web apps?

Yes? The WHOLE POINT of native apps is that they are better at integrating with the system. Like access storage, gps, camera, accelerometer/gyroscope, etc. Besides that the only benefit of a native app is basically that the UI/UX will be closer to what the user is accustomed to.

That's not the only point. Web apps can have far lower performance or battery utilization than real native apps for one thing. If you care about the environment or your battery life use a compiled app, not the web.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#255

Post by TexanFeller »

olalonde wrote: post #87
TexanFeller wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd prefer to get rid of the app and just have users go to the website and install the PWA, but the average user still doesn't know how to do this I think you misunderstood users, it's not just ignorance. I want apps to go back in the direction of real(not cordova) apps, not some low effort web thing. Basically zero web apps match the experience of a well crafted actual app.

Would you prefer having no app at all or a Cordova/PWA app? Because those are often the only realistic options for one-man/small teams.

Usually I would prefer no app. Better than wasting my time downloading an app, being disappointed that it was noticeably "web", and ditching it. Low effort implementations also make it harder for the grass of better native apps to grow amidst the web based weeds.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#256

Post by c-hendricks »

IshKebab wrote: post #200
lrem wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just looking through the apps I currently have open… Bank app, chat app, maps, Tile, YouTube and a weather app. Only one of them is actually doing anything that wouldn’t fit a PWA. So why are they apps, not a collection of links?

I would say only the weather and bank apps would be really equal as a PWA. Maps require complex gestures and advanced graphics and UIs that would never work well as a PWA. Try maps.google.com. Its nothing like the Google Maps app. Plus Android Auto integration. Tile probably needs pretty deep Bluetooth integration and background processing that the web doesn't provide. YouTube can do things like PiP that you can't do…

I use YouTube in a browser on my phone specifically because it has PiP without having to pay Google monthly for the privilege.

If I request the Desktop version of YouTube, where Google doesn't hide their own Mini player button, the video continues to play in the corner.

Mapbox.js is also pretty capable.

Not really sure what you're on about TBH.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#257

Post by anders_p »

mvdtnz wrote: post #182
zaat wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what I said, I live half my life within browsers. But big chunk of the population that you are probably not thinking about is not like that. My mother in law is using browser to read on her computer, and will never do that on her phone - the screen is too small and the whole experience not something that fits someone at her age. On the other hand, my children use apps since they are two years old, and at t…

The screen is too small to use a web browser, but not too small to use an app? Can you explain what you mean? This doesn't seem at all reasonable.

There are a lot of websites that don't scale well with small screens.

Just the simple trick of zooming in on a website with a "2 finger pinch/pull" is something a big part of the population doesn't even know how to do. I know my mom would probably just give up.

Buttons on many websites are way too small for some people to use.

Those are never an issue on native apps. The UI on apps scale with the size of a phone's screen. No matter if you have the smallest iPhone or the largest Android.

This alone is enough for many people to not use the web browser unless absolutely necessary.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#258

Post by anders_p »

sofixa wrote: post #158
l72 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that many of my users are temporary. For example, I have an app for the public transit system for a resort town in Colorado. The town has a decent, albeit small bus system. They technically have an app from their vendor, although it is not very good and is difficult to find. If you search for "$town_name transit app", it won't show up anywhere, where as my app does. And I think my app is much more user…

> If you search for "$town_name transit app" Do people really search for entirely temporary/short-term/single-use use apps, like for a resort town's transit or a restaurant? For me it's a last resort thing, if there's no website or it's unusable.

Once you find out how different many people are from you some day, your head is gonna explode.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#259

Post by scarface_74 »

TexanFeller wrote: post #254
anders_p wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? The WHOLE POINT of native apps is that they are better at integrating with the system. Like access storage, gps, camera, accelerometer/gyroscope, etc. Besides that the only benefit of a native app is basically that the UI/UX will be closer to what the user is accustomed to.

That's not the only point. Web apps can have far lower performance or battery utilization than real native apps for one thing. If you care about the environment or your battery life use a compiled app, not the web.

How would that possibly true? A native app doesn’t go through the three or four phases that a modern JavaScript engine goes through.

Especially on iOS more so than Android apps since there is no JVM like environment.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#260

Post by [deleted] »

lawgimenez wrote: post #238

To add more context, the [1] policy has been around since last year. > Today, as part of Google Play’s latest policy updates, we are taking additional steps to protect users from installing apps that may not have the latest privacy and security features by expanding our target level API requirements. Starting on November 1, 2022, existing apps that don’t target an API level within two years of the latest major Androi…

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