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TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

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Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#251

Post by flo123456 »

jupp0r wrote: post #227
dav_Oz wrote: post #178

For those unfamiliar with the region (Saxony, Dresden): A registered association ( e.V. in German) bluntly named "Silicon Saxony e.V." (est. in 2000) with over 450 members headquartered in Dresden pretty much sums up the infrastructure and ambition.[0][1] As pointed out the process TSMC’s 28/22 nanometer planar CMOS and 16/12 nanometer FinFET process technology (fabrication will begin in 2027) is not "cutting edge" b…

Having lived there for a decade, I must point out that you are painting a very one sided picture of the region. It's also a hot spot for Germany's populist right. I've witnessed visiting Indian colleagues of mine being threatened on the street for having dark skin and racist demonstrations are a weekly occurrence. I eventually moved away (among other reasons) because I didn't want my kids to grow up in this environme…

Still living here I must point out that you are pointing an equally one sided picture.

While all of what you say is true and problematic, there are people from all over the world living in Dresden and some parts (especially Neustadt) are politically rather left leaning.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#252

Post by murkt »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #115
murkt wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not familiar with the story, can you elaborate a bit on the chip production being a reason of GDR collapse?

The collapse of the GDR has many reasons, mostly it ran out of money during the 80s. There have been several reasons for running out of money, e.G. taking on massive credit in the 70s to produce more consumer goods and build flats (the reason Honecker was very popular after his coup against Ulbricht), which it had problems to pay back in the 80s. Also minor things like spending millions on importing coffee (all exper…

Thanks so much, really informative! I need to read up on economies of Warsaw bloc countries. For some reason I’ve never even heard about a Poland bankruptcy in 1980-81, and I’m from Ukraine (so I’m more than familiar with goods deficit, sadly).

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#253

Post by nntwozz »

hospitalJail wrote: post #217
nntwozz wrote: post #56

Just want to share these relevant videos from Asianometry: How Semiconductors Ruined East Germany https://youtu.be/cxrkC-pMH_s Why Europe Lost Semiconductors https://youtu.be/5ZdmS-EAbHo Europe’s Lost Decades in Semiconductors https://youtu.be/PpSdytrNEBg It's great to get chip manufacturing back to Germany after all the struggles, even if it's not cutting edge.

I watched a few of their videos, but I felt like it was an anti-china propaganda outlet. I'm def not a fan of the CCP, so I loved watching the videos, but I felt like I was getting brainwashed. Does anyone know how valid/factual their videos are?

As factual and valid as you could hope for. I find his work very thorough.

Here's a video about China's Gallium & Germanium Export Controls:

https://youtu.be/J4XU-QxXJMw

I didn't find it anti-China, neither are his other videos in my opinion.

According to the transcript below Jon Y. is half Taiwanese/Hong Kong, make of that what you will.

https://www.manifold1.com/episodes/jon-y-asianometry-on-semi...

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#254

Post by llm_nerd »

yk wrote: post #238
llm_nerd wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fab is for chips that are something along the lines of 4 generations old, and that's ignoring that they won't start manufacturing until 2027... This has absolutely nothing to do with AI or LLMs. Generally these are automation chips for machinery or vehicles. "Microsoft made him walk that one back real quick" This sounds like a weird fan fiction. OpenAI openly negotiates with EU governments. No one walked back any…

The technology is roughly 10 years behind, but in the scenario that the replacement capability becomes important is something like Trump fumbles the great power competition and US and China have a nice nuclear moment. And frankly making do with Haswell era CPUs is lamentable but as far as nuclear exchanges go not that bad.

Older generation fabs are critical. They power most of the machines around us, and often pump out low priced but capable chips. I certainly am not contesting that.

I responded to someone who seems to believe this is the great AI equalizer. This fab has no relevance to AI. And FWIW, Europe already has a number of much more advanced fabs! Intel is currently upgrading Ireland to "Intel 4" spec (which in TSMC land would be 7nm), and is building other fabs, for instance.

Ultimately this story is "German automakers want more control over supply chain of vanilla automation chips", and not much more.

As an aside, it's always interesting that we talk about Taiwan's revered chip prowess (South Korea is up there as well)...when the Dutch company ASML is really the technology key. TSMC executes extraordinarily well, but they wouldn't be doing it without ASML.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#255

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

hospitalJail wrote: post #212
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Altman himself threatened (for a brief period) to cut off GPT to the EU after Italy rightfully brought up issues with data privacy. This wouldn't be a big deal. GPT is not some one-of-a-kind leaps-and-bounds ahead of everyone else ground-breaking technology.

Still in denial? I have a hard time understanding the people who visit this website and havent used the technology.

The people most hyped on GPT are the people who see the potential for it if it continues to get exponentially better - which Altman himself pretty much said it won't.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#256

Post by laserdancepony »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #166
dontupvoteme wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France has Mistral, it might actually be a perfect 1-2 EU combo, the French do the aesthetics and the Germans do the engineering.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#257

Post by mainframed »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #239
jupp0r wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived there for a decade, I must point out that you are painting a very one sided picture of the region. It's also a hot spot for Germany's populist right. I've witnessed visiting Indian colleagues of mine being threatened on the street for having dark skin and racist demonstrations are a weekly occurrence. I eventually moved away (among other reasons) because I didn't want my kids to grow up in this environme…

Question: does that mean there are no indian restaurants in Dresden?

There are. Why wouldn't there be?

There are a lot of minorities in Germany, which (sadly have to) accept daily racism.

Thankfully, at this point violence against minorities (~800 right extremists violent crimes in 2022 in whole Germany) is not as high such that people consider moving away.

And if you get a job there and this is your ticket into immigration, probably a lot of people will accept this to get German citizenship. Finally, this will open you access to all the working places in Europe.

My hope (as a West German) is that investments like this, will increase East-Germany's economy such that they are finally equal in terms of economic wealth, which is a large factor for racism/extremism.

Same with opposing climate change laws.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#258

Post by the-dude »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #226
christkv wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is still doing it, and when they don’t the us applies pressure through its closest European Allies. The us is very much still involved in classic Cold War stuff in Europe. The Ukrainian war has been very good to American exports of arms and liquid gas.

> The Ukrainian war has been very good to American exports of arms By "exports", do you mean donations? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64656301

It is still exported, right? Calling it a donation does not suddenly make the arms free/gratis. The money still comes from somewhere and is ... exported.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#259

Post by KingOfCoders »

ko27 wrote: post #233
oytis wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing wrong with state subsidies, EU has just not been good at them historically (e.g. Galileo), and there is reasonable doubt that it is going to be better this time, as what they invest in is far from being a cutting edge technology.

What are you talking about? Galileo is a big win for the EU, even after taking into account the initial problems.

And will be, should the US for whatever reason decide to limit access to GPS or reduce resolution in certain parts of the world. Transport in the EU would break down.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#260

Post by FirmwareBurner »

mainframed wrote: post #257
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question: does that mean there are no indian restaurants in Dresden?

There are. Why wouldn't there be? There are a lot of minorities in Germany, which (sadly have to) accept daily racism. Thankfully, at this point violence against minorities (~800 right extremists violent crimes in 2022 in whole Germany) is not as high such that people consider moving away. And if you get a job there and this is your ticket into immigration, probably a lot of people will accept this to get German citi…

>There are. Why wouldn't there be?

Because he said Indians are attacked on the street in Dresden.

If that's the case why would you move and open a restaurant there if you're Indian?

Or was he exaggerating the issue?

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