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Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

arxiv.org

251–260 of 269 posts

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#251
post #8

Doesn't it seem like there should be some sort of annealing process required? this material being essentially a powder smashed into a tablet form seems like it would likely be a very poor conductor unless the superconducting properties not only existed in each of the granules of the powder, but also can easily transition between each of the boundaries. So wouldn't you want the final thing to be closer to like a ceram…

The lack of annealing seems really problematic to me

If the DFT paper is correct, then annealing would let the Cu atoms relax to the Pb(2) sites, which doesn't induce potentially superconducting bands.

Metastable alloys (roughly, alloys that are only stable at room temperature because the atoms get frozen in place too quickly for them to reach the energetically favorable positions) are quite common in materials science, both for bulk metals and for semiconducting crystals. There are far more possible metastable alloys than stable alloys, so the range of material properties possible in metastable alloys is far wider than that in stable alloys. So, considering we have never discovered a room temperature superconductor, so far, it wouldn't be particularly surprising if it requires a metastable alloy.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#252
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> synthesis process seems rather straightforward They’ve been working on this for years . To me it looks like whatever their process is, they don’t have something that’s repeatable. So maybe a couple of small samples are all there are after 1000s of attempts doing more or less the same thing .

So the groups trying to replicate right now are basically wasting their time?

No, this still needs replication. A room temp and pressure superconductor being possible at all, verifiably, implies there are probably better versions to be discovered. This could really improve the funding in the area, and labs that attempt replication and fail could benefit from that.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#253
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The russian anime girl scientist had to make a bunch of modifications (and was cursing the orig authors) before she could make her rocks float. link?

https://twitter.com/iris_IGB/status/1685322871306928128

>emerges for engineering conductivity pili of bacteria into the superconductors of this class.

What...

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#254

Can anyone ELI5 - Is the compound/material used for LK-99 that unique? Are there other, similar materials that might also have this 'quantum well' quality?

It's relatively common materials, basically, lead, copper, sulfur, and oxygen, combined in a specific manner.

There is a chance that either the original measurements were wrong or that there remains some unrealized step in the process to make the superconductor superconduct.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#255
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that they take phone video of all their experiments over the course of multiple years? Or just the one they know will succeed?

I'm sorry, you really think it's that hard to have a camera running in a lab that records footage continuously, and you save the clips where you succeed? What percent of the cost of running these experiments do you think that is to buy a nest or a unifi camera? Heck, Do you believe the university doesn’t already have a surveillance system almost certainly in the hallway to the lab. Plenty of them even have cameras in…

Ah, another example of how something is so easy when you just imagine other people doing it.

Your aspiration, I suppose, is that this (e.g., surveillance?) video will document the experimental activities in enough detail so that they can be replicated and/or convincingly proven. As a practical matter, it's ludicrous to think that any of the examples that you suggest as obvious and trivial would do either of these things much less survive a cursory consideration of their cost/benefit. Maybe you should prototype your system using a Nest camera in the corner of a lab and demonstrate reading the label on a critical reagent from the video.

Further, this is a classic example of premature optimization. Should only labs that are confident that they will be contesting for a Nobel prize be monitoring all their experiments or do you also envision this as an activity for labs with lesser aspirations or self-esteem?

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#256
post #223

A little bit of a rabbit trail, but with this and similar science/reporting issues, I find myself wishing both the hype and the vitriol was taken out completely. What if the world could follow the LK-99 team and replication attempts in near real time and everyone had a sense like "if this succeeds, great, if not, we know one more way it doesn't work". And what if the millions of various studies on any topic were publ…

It's amazing we don't have good personal content filtering yet. I would pay so much for an all-encompassing blocker. There is so much content I would block if I actually could. Completely disable YouTube Shorts on mobile. All snarky/sarcastic/political/ad-hominem takes filtered.

There is an interesting take on this on Neal Stephenson's Termination Shock: wealthy people can afford to have personal curators that filter news and other content for them, while the lower classes have been driven off the deep end by the near future Internet's relentless stream of disinformation.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you don't know the history. They were doing other unrelated things in the meantime, not working in this.

I'm aware of that. But if I was an early-career researcher looking to establish myself, secure funding and maybe a tenure-track position, and I had a nobel-prize-winning discovery up my sleeve, I can't imagine many things that would take precedence. I mean, obviously whatever happened happened. It just seems strange to simultaneously claim to have discovered something 24 years ago, and to have been rushed into publis…

> mean, obviously whatever happened happened. It just seems strange to simultaneously claim to have discovered something 24 years ago, and to have been rushed into publishing prematurely.

Probably there was a big team. Somebody with a low rank worked his/her ass off on the breakdown, but then noticed their names would be filled off or put only in acknowledgements section, to be replaced with some senior lab manager that did just administrative paperwork and barely knew the work. So they said screw it and just published whatever they could before the laurels were stolen.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#258

Everyone in this thread needs to understand that particularly for materials science, and particularly when there is bad methodology documentation, it is really, really normal for early replication attempts to fail. What works in one lab will often need to be adjusted to work in another, with different equipment, altitude, humidity, all sorts of stuff. Making it even worse, apparently the original team can't even get…

This comment intrigued me, so I pulled together some information. The first paper submitted is titled "The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor." It lists three authors: Sukbae Lee, Ji-Hoon Kim, and Young-Wan Kwon. Its timestamp is Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 07:51:19 UTC. [1] The second paper submitted is titled "Superconductor Pb10−xCux(PO4)6O showing levitation at room temperature and atmospheric…

Was the removed researcher junior to those latter added on?

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#259
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, you really think it's that hard to have a camera running in a lab that records footage continuously, and you save the clips where you succeed? What percent of the cost of running these experiments do you think that is to buy a nest or a unifi camera? Heck, Do you believe the university doesn’t already have a surveillance system almost certainly in the hallway to the lab. Plenty of them even have cameras in…

Ah, another example of how something is so easy when you just imagine other people doing it. Your aspiration, I suppose, is that this (e.g., surveillance?) video will document the experimental activities in enough detail so that they can be replicated and/or convincingly proven. As a practical matter, it's ludicrous to think that any of the examples that you suggest as obvious and trivial would do either of these thi…

What makes you believe I haven't done this before?

If you want to know, maybe, you know, ask ("Have you ever tried to do this before in a lab?" - this is also not hard, and even the people not contending for the Nobel prize can do it), rather than just assert that this is just something i only want to see others do in my imagination, which is not just rude, but actually, it turns out, wrong.

But hey, don't let that stop you. Please, continue to assert things about me rather than actually ask or otherwise use means that might gain knowledge of me and what i have or haven't done.

To answer the rest, so, actually, no, that's not my aspiration. My aspiration was "producing and testing", specifically targeted at "early stage believability". Which is what I said. You seem to have decided that means "be able to show all pieces in a convincing way" or "make a how to video". That would be silly, which is why i didn't say that.

This is is mostly about showing a video of the end result in a meaningful way, as the literal top thread on this on HN now does, posting multiple reproduction and testing videos. If you can show production in some way at all, awesome. I'm not interested in the residents cynics shitting on every single way that it could be faked, nor are most other people.

To most people, those videos are much more convincing than all the papers and anything else you produce.

As for who monitors, as I mentioned elsewhere, lots of labs already have cameras, because universities now put them in almost every room. As I mentioned, I was even in multiple material science labs in the past week, and all had cameras. But please, feel free to continue to pretend that this is some super complicated thing to do when it's already being done and being used to good effect, convincingly, on HN, right now.

I guess they all just contending for a nobel prize, because otherwise, this is clearly impossible, despite it literally having been done.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#260
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, another example of how something is so easy when you just imagine other people doing it. Your aspiration, I suppose, is that this (e.g., surveillance?) video will document the experimental activities in enough detail so that they can be replicated and/or convincingly proven. As a practical matter, it's ludicrous to think that any of the examples that you suggest as obvious and trivial would do either of these thi…

What makes you believe I haven't done this before? If you want to know, maybe, you know, ask ("Have you ever tried to do this before in a lab?" - this is also not hard, and even the people not contending for the Nobel prize can do it), rather than just assert that this is just something i only want to see others do in my imagination, which is not just rude, but actually, it turns out, wrong. But hey, don't let that s…

I don't know what problem you think you're solving with the idea of using webcams in a lab. The inventors of LK-99 have a video of their sample on a magnet. So it's not addressing that problem. Some replication attempts are livestreaming on Twitch, so it's not solving that problem.

Do you think that it would be easier to replicate the LK-99 process if video from a corner of their lab existed?

OK. I want to know - have you produced compelling video of a controversial experiment in a lab using the pre-existing security cameras? And did that video quiet any critics?

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