Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 767 posts

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#251

Post by ivan_gammel »

codedokode wrote: post #231
mrb wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" GDP PPP can increase whilst your economy contracts. " Still, if PPP GDP increases, with all else being equal (eg. stable population) it would imply the standard of living is increasing. That is why PPP GDP captures a more accurate measure of the real world. Said another way, what truly matters isn't "GDP growth", but changes in purchasing power/quality of life.

PPP is a misleading figure. If your PPP-adjusted income is 2 times higher than someone's else does it mean that you can buy 2 times more MacBooks or trips to Korea?

If I earn $100k somewhere in Eastern Europe, then deducting all taxes and recurring costs like health insurance, rent or mortgage, from what’s left I may be able to buy more MacBooks or trips to Korea than someone from San Francisco. It is misleading to compare just a few imported goods to make conclusions as well.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#252

Post by rafaelero »

e4e5 wrote: post #232
rafaelero wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US wages have not followed US productivity for the last 50 years as well.

I don't understand this argument. If everyone has become more productive, why would wages rise? Wouldn't we see that as inflation then? I think the rise of productivity is more seen in the growth of the GDP

Either wages keep stagnant and prices drop following productivity growth (gold standard) or wage growth = price growth (inflation) + productivity growth (fiat system).

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#253

Post by clipsy »

selectodude wrote: post #109
midasuni wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

35 year olds on 90%ile income jobs can’t afford to live on their own. Millions are worse off compared to even the 1980s because the productive gains are going to the wealthy.

That must be unique to Europe because in the United States, a 90th percentile income is >$200,000. I don't make that and I live extremely comfortably on my own.

The cutoff for 90th percentile in the US for individual income is $132k[0], certainly not >$200k. I'm guessing you looked at household income.

[0]: https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-individual-income-perce...

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#254

Post by Loocid »

sonicshadow wrote: post #163
janalsncm wrote: post #158

This is a bit of a frame trap. Here’s another metric: ==2021== Life expectancy in EU: 80 Life expectancy in US: 76 ==Rolling back to 2008== Life expectancy in EU: 79 Life expectancy in US: 78 What’s the point? Maybe GDP isn’t the most important indicator. The US can double it’s GDP by making healthcare more expensive and extracting every last dime from the elderly, but can it actually improve quality of life for peop…

What's the point of living an extra few years either? I'd rather die at 70 after having lived a healthy life, than 80 and suffered the last 10 years

Why do you assume you'll suffer from 70-80?

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#255

Post by wanderingmind »

Not even an amateur economist, but intuitively, it feels like there is a very delicate balance needed in taxation. Higher taxation (likely Eurozone) is needed to support the poorer sections of the society. However too high, it kills innovation and growth and in turn the whole pie size. Too little taxation (likely US), pumps innovation and growth but destroys support for poor but also hinders investments in infrastructure needed for these innovations to thrive.

I'm not going to comment on the correct levels, as I have no clue, but one thing that feels certainly wrong is complexity of taxation. This gets exploited by a small percentage of people while leaves a large percentage afraid to venture.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#256

Post by [deleted] »

gruez wrote: post #228
futureshock wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to point out that the open door policy to refugees came because Europe was trying to escape the demographic trap and the collapse of the social safety net. The hope was that young refugees would become net positive GDP contributors for decades, an idea borrowed from the US. If that has failed, it’s due to a failure of integration. Europe can actually be quite a racist place and in many ways the US is better…

>I’d like to point out that the open door policy to refugees came because Europe was trying to escape the demographic trap and the collapse of the social safety net. This sounds like post hoc justification. If you want immigrants, wouldn't you want to pick the best and brightest, rather than whoever washes up on your shore?

[deleted]

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#257

Post by FpUser »

blibble wrote: post #190
dougmwne wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was economical to buy the Russian gas delivered by pipeline. The US wanted to sell its more expensive LNG. And it ended up getting its wish after it supported a western aligned Ukraine and while no one wants to claim responsibility for blowing up nordstream, someone definitely blew it up and it helped cement the US as the gas supplier of Europe. I think the message is clear that it’s best not to upset the US.

> It was economical to buy the Russian gas delivered by pipeline. see I can understand this logic pre 2014, but post 2014 (i.e. Crimea), absolutely not the euros paid to putin were used to re-arm and those weapons are now being used in Ukraine and if he wins then Eastern Europe is next in line but yes germans saved 2% on their gas bills for 10 years

>"and if he wins then Eastern Europe is next in line"

I doubt Putin is suicidal. Eastern Europe is in NATO, hence protected.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#258

Post by bpodgursky »

mrtksn wrote: post #81
legitster wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was recently talking with a friend who moved to Germany and loved it. But now that he is raising a family he is planning on moving back to the states. There's definitely a quantity/quality difference. Things in Germany are just nicer . But at a certain point, the "niceness" of things doesn't matter to you much anymore when you are trying to raise a family of 4 in a 800 sq ft apartment.

Europe is densely populated in general but there are villages all over the place where you can have a large house like in an American suburb. I think cultural expectations are more defining, for example Turks are frustrated with the healthcare in Europe because they expect to see a specialist ASAP even for the smallest thing and they want antibiotics for it. In Germany you won’t get all the antibiotics you want unles…

I get that this is true in principle, but the fact is that Americans have significantly more children per-capita than Germans, and this is at least in part driven by economic limitations (including housing).

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#259

Post by lotsofpulp »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #66
slibhb wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The housing crisis is interesting. Post-crisis, Europe adopted austerity measures and the US went the other way. I bet that explains this gap more so than (from the article) unions and Europeans being lazy.

It felt like Germany and France recapitalized their banks on the backs of hard hit countries with little power to fight back. Where the US recapitalized it's banks by loaning them a bunch of funny money from the Fed. The latter probably worked out better.

The latter only works if people are buying even more of what you are selling with that currency. The US continued to supply stability in its society and courts, access to resources via its military, and most importantly, organizations (like tech companies) that pump out very nice cash flows.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#260

Post by jen20 »

tinus_hn wrote: post #83
dougmwne wrote: post #73

Here’s a better comparison. The thing that really hurt the Eurozone was the 2011 - 2013 recession that the US did not experience. Plus there’s a slower growth rate even in the good times. https://freedomandprosperity.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/... That said, these numbers are very misleading and do not show well what a person’s life looks like in the US. By my own anecdotal estimation, in the EU low and medium in…

[flagged]

This is at least as much (if not substantially more) to do with boomers who have entitlements wildly unimaginable to anyone younger.
Post reply on HN