Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

California needs real math education, not gimmicks

noahpinion.blog

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 386 posts

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#251

Post by peterfirefly »

fn-mote wrote: post #145
outlace wrote: post #44

I think we significantly overestimate how much school actually matters compared to family milieus. My wife and I highly value education, so regardless of when the school says children should learn algebra, I am already tutoring my 6 year old in basic algebra. If school did nothing other than be a daycare for my kids so we could work, they'd probably still be better educated than most kids going through public school…

This is a recipe for an ignorant underclass from which one can never escape. What is a bright kid supposed to do when their parents have a third grade education? Functioning public school is supposed to solve that problem.

Public libraries were invented a long, long time ago. These days, the internet is even better than the public libraries used to be.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#252

Post by [deleted] »

ecshafer wrote: post #80
HWR_14 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't those absurd consulting fees determined by taking a small fee and dividing it by a very small number of nominal hours worked?

$40,000 billed at $5,000 an hour for 8 hours worked is not what I would call a small fee no matter how you split it. That's a very large fee divided by a very small number of hours worked.

[deleted]

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#253

Post by hector125 »

blindriver wrote: post #50

The actions that the California state education system towards Blacks and Brown kids are exactly what the most insidious racist person would do. If I hated Black and Brown kids, I would lower the education standards so low that these kids would graduate high school being unable to compete at the city, state or country level. And this is EXACTLY what is happening. Half of the Black kids in SF are graduating high schoo…

[flagged]

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#254

Post by [deleted] »

ecshafer wrote: post #80
HWR_14 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't those absurd consulting fees determined by taking a small fee and dividing it by a very small number of nominal hours worked?

$40,000 billed at $5,000 an hour for 8 hours worked is not what I would call a small fee no matter how you split it. That's a very large fee divided by a very small number of hours worked.

[deleted]

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#255

Post by datavirtue »

nebula8804 wrote: post #238
another_story wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also an increased distance between those doing the actual work and those making decisions about how it should be done. Bureaucratic depth keeps any real change from taking place, instead leaving those on the ground level to try and work within a set growing rules. Any attempt to affect change has to be filtered through so many levels and takes so long. As a longtime teacher, I don't think there are any soluti…

>All that said, I don't know if it'll change much. The culture in America doesn't respect the value of education, nor educators in the way it used to. Its crazy to see these stats in the link along with your comment... but at the same time see that the US leading the way(or is at least in the top tier) in technology, business, innovation, etc. How is the country continuing to produce so much output when its mechanism…

Yes. The population drop alone is going to make all this happen. Nevermind the massive black hole of citizenry who know next to nothing and are proud of it.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#256

Post by outlace »

tlogan wrote: post #189
outlace wrote: post #44

I think we significantly overestimate how much school actually matters compared to family milieus. My wife and I highly value education, so regardless of when the school says children should learn algebra, I am already tutoring my 6 year old in basic algebra. If school did nothing other than be a daycare for my kids so we could work, they'd probably still be better educated than most kids going through public school…

Yes. However, public schools should provide opportunities for children to break free from this destructive cycle. And it is not about “family” values. What the single grandma can do? Or single mom having drug issues can do? And these two examples are 100% real world examples.

But that’s sort of the point I’m making- schools can’t fix drug-addicted parents and that’s probably going to make much more of a difference in a child’s educational attainment than how good their teacher is at teaching math. Unless schools are going to do more than just teach academic subjects. They will basically have to function as reliable, disciplining parents.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#257

Post by viraptor »

wcarey wrote: post #243
WalterBright wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large companies still have plenty of incentive pay. Currently, teachers have zero incentive to get results. I bet you'll see results that follow incentives. Of course it won't be perfect - but I bet it'll be much better than the current disaster. People like money. Especially the people who say they aren't motivated by money :-)

Have you thought out the perverse incentives your pay scheme would create?

Like teachers giving answers to students because higher grades / more passing means more money...

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#259

Post by viraptor »

_8j50 wrote: post #207

I think standardized tests are ideal. Make them very hard and don't be afraid to fail most of your students and have them repeat grades. Testing should not account for anything about a student other than physical disability needs. The effects of these measures are seen decades after enactment. From what I have observed, the politicization of education and having metrics other than academic tests has gotten so bad, it…

> other than physical disability needs.

And mental, unless you wanted to likely fail many people with various kinds of dyslexia and many other issues.

If your actually care only about the test results, there's lots of other adjustments you should be very interested in to enable everyone to have a shot.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#260

Post by lacrimacida »

sokoloff wrote: post #229
WalterBright wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cash incentives aren't going to make a difference. If they don't make a difference, then there won't be any payouts to make. It's a can't-lose proposal.

I’m generally supportive of finding ways to better use the talent of teachers and if paying incentives is part of that, great. But this claim is pretty absurd. Imagine that payoffs (in a poorly designed system) are based on a random number generator. That won’t have any lasting, society-wide effect (I suspect you agree), but would result in some payouts. Incentive design is the difficult nut here, but if cracked, the…

Designed incentives can look good on paper but in reality they get gamed a lot until they are insignificant or detrimental to the final outcome.
Post reply on HN