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The damaging results of mandated return to office

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Re: The damaging results of mandated return to office

#251

Post by suprjami »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #41

There have been a lot of, at least to me, somewhat unsubstantiated criticisms that fully remote work is difficult for new graduates. I can only provide n=1 sample data, but back when I was working for a company that was fully remote, we brought on many junior engineers who lived across the United States and didn't have any problems onboarding them by keeping a continual slack team huddle running during office hours.…

I've heard this too, but my employer is 99% remote and we've made some excellent hires over the last few years. It's part of my responsibilities to do ongoing mentorship, after others do more intense onboarding, so schedule regular (~monthly) video chats, and be available to work on incidentals together. No office required.

Re: The damaging results of mandated return to office

#252

Post by nottorp »

mikrotikker wrote: post #239
Lewton wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer going to the office, not because of the social aspect, but because I strongly prefer separating my work from my personal life I really enjoyed back when working from the office was optional and I was the only one showing up!

I'm lucky in that I converted a rather fancy woodshed into an office/lab with lots of Ethernet ports so my work can stay in there. When I was I the house it wasn't as good since I could still hear the slack and email noises from the lounge etc.

> I could still hear the slack and email noises from the lounge

Holy Ahura Mazda! You have intrusive notifications enabled? That's not a good idea even when working in the office...

Re: The damaging results of mandated return to office

#253

Post by Cymrukicks »

tetromino_ wrote: post #242
NKosmatos wrote: post #103

Once you’ve tasted the fruits of WFH and you like the taste, you’ll never go back. It’s like going from a black and white TV to a color one, from a dummy phone to a smartphone, from dialup internet to fiber to the home. You never go the other way round, unless there is a very strong reason and personal decision. People like to improve their lives in whatever way is best for them and will strongly object to a “downgra…

> Once you’ve tasted the fruits of WFH and you like the taste, you’ll never go back. Let me guess, you are in a low cost of living area (at least relative to your income) and have a big house? I live in NYC. Residential floor space is very expensive here. My wife and I on two tech salaries can afford a fairly large place by the standards of our area, but it's definitely not large enough for 2 adults to comfortably wo…

Or you could keep your jobs and move to a lower cost of living area making us of more space?

Re: The damaging results of mandated return to office

#254

Post by verve_rat »

jalapenos wrote: post #88
soligern wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s all roses. I see my coworkers in person once a year at the Christmas party. Other than that I’ve only every worked with them online since I started working here 2.5 years ago. It’s all roses.

Classic HN, any pitch for a shade of grey gets met with either "no it's white!", followed by "what? everyone knows it's always black!".

People are complex and different. If something is white for one person, and black for another, when you put them next to each other you get... black and white.

Reducing people's different experiences to a homogeneous grey mush is overly reductive.

Re: The damaging results of mandated return to office

#255

Post by verve_rat »

lynx23 wrote: post #188
thegrumpyenby wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Sure, as a disabled person, I totally like it when abled-body people like you call me "ableist", that is so funny that I almost forget how shitty that move is. Yes, you didnt know, I know, but, keep disability out of your arguments please, people with real disabilities will thank you for that. And there is a difference between "care duties" and the "papa is at home so we can pester him with family stuff all day long"…

If your colleagues are working less and getting their work done, getting paid the same, then maybe you should try working less too?

Unless you own the company what do you care?

Re: The damaging results of mandated return to office

#256

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

tetromino_ wrote: post #242
NKosmatos wrote: post #103

Once you’ve tasted the fruits of WFH and you like the taste, you’ll never go back. It’s like going from a black and white TV to a color one, from a dummy phone to a smartphone, from dialup internet to fiber to the home. You never go the other way round, unless there is a very strong reason and personal decision. People like to improve their lives in whatever way is best for them and will strongly object to a “downgra…

> Once you’ve tasted the fruits of WFH and you like the taste, you’ll never go back. Let me guess, you are in a low cost of living area (at least relative to your income) and have a big house? I live in NYC. Residential floor space is very expensive here. My wife and I on two tech salaries can afford a fairly large place by the standards of our area, but it's definitely not large enough for 2 adults to comfortably wo…

That's why I don't understand the insistence on RTO. It's clear from all discussions that people have different views on the topics. So why don't give people a choice? Those who want to work in the office should be free to do so, as should be the rest of us who sees no reasons to go back. In this scenario everybody is happy and more productive.

Re: The damaging results of mandated return to office

#257

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

querez wrote: post #196
NKosmatos wrote: post #103

Once you’ve tasted the fruits of WFH and you like the taste, you’ll never go back. It’s like going from a black and white TV to a color one, from a dummy phone to a smartphone, from dialup internet to fiber to the home. You never go the other way round, unless there is a very strong reason and personal decision. People like to improve their lives in whatever way is best for them and will strongly object to a “downgra…

To each their own. I find that WFH makes me incredibly unproductive, I'm glad I'm able to return to to the office. I think there are a lot of factors that affect this (e.g. I have a family with small children at home, and my commute is <15 minutes by bike).

> To each their own.

That's exactly my point! I find it ridiculous that CEO's think they somehow have to create the same policy for everyone, as if giving people a choice was somehow a taboo. We've come a long way realizing self-organizing teams work better than micromanaged ones etc., I wonder how long it will take PHBs to understand that giving people a choice is not just good for them but it's overly beneficial to the whole company.

Re: The damaging results of mandated return to office

#258

Post by pvdoom »

jaclaz wrote: post #232
pvdoom wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's both. A farmer could do that, because they tend to own their farm. A worker usually has no ownership in the business. They're more like farmhands ...

If we go back in time it wasn't the case always. A common form of agricultural contract in many countries, up to the WWII and in some countries even after was a form of rent where the owner provided the farm, and the tenant worked on it and they divided the crop (or whatever the farm produced), in English it is called sharecropping: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping

Which is very interesting to consider how it relates to capitalism today, and how in essence you are paying some amount of rent to your employer, in the form of the profits of the work - the leftover after salaries are paid and expenses covered.

Re: The damaging results of mandated return to office

#259

Post by glimshe »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #256
tetromino_ wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once you’ve tasted the fruits of WFH and you like the taste, you’ll never go back. Let me guess, you are in a low cost of living area (at least relative to your income) and have a big house? I live in NYC. Residential floor space is very expensive here. My wife and I on two tech salaries can afford a fairly large place by the standards of our area, but it's definitely not large enough for 2 adults to comfortably wo…

That's why I don't understand the insistence on RTO. It's clear from all discussions that people have different views on the topics. So why don't give people a choice? Those who want to work in the office should be free to do so, as should be the rest of us who sees no reasons to go back. In this scenario everybody is happy and more productive.

I'm all for WFH and dislike going to the office often. But it's the same argument as the parent, from the company's perspective. Once local executives taste the fruits of in-person "watch the cattle" control, which was the entirety of their careers, it's hard for them to go back to "forced worker freedom".

Re: The damaging results of mandated return to office

#260

Post by apexalpha »

tetromino_ wrote: post #242
NKosmatos wrote: post #103

Once you’ve tasted the fruits of WFH and you like the taste, you’ll never go back. It’s like going from a black and white TV to a color one, from a dummy phone to a smartphone, from dialup internet to fiber to the home. You never go the other way round, unless there is a very strong reason and personal decision. People like to improve their lives in whatever way is best for them and will strongly object to a “downgra…

> Once you’ve tasted the fruits of WFH and you like the taste, you’ll never go back. Let me guess, you are in a low cost of living area (at least relative to your income) and have a big house? I live in NYC. Residential floor space is very expensive here. My wife and I on two tech salaries can afford a fairly large place by the standards of our area, but it's definitely not large enough for 2 adults to comfortably wo…

From my perspective, it feels like this post is putting the cart before the horse.

In stead of thinking: I'd like to go back to the office because our home is too small, why don't you think: I'd like to work from home so that I can afford a bigger house for less cost?

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