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First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

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Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#251

Post by madeofpalk »

Gareth321 wrote: post #159
PostOnce wrote: post #72

I don't understand why there is no AR or VR killer app for this thing. Their sales pitch was "it makes it amazing to read articles in safari"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYkq9Rgoj8E&t=5410s $3500 to... look at a floating web browser? Surely they can come up with something. Give me UV/IR vision, let me see the pipes under the ground, show me how to assemble the furniture I'm looking at, give me a template to pain…

This was a reported rumour prior to the reveal yesterday: no significant use case. This is a significant departure from Apple's usual MO: find a USP and NAIL the implementation. They're using a scattergun approach here and it's risky. They better be sending these headsets free of charge to thousands of studios in the hopes that some of them develop THE killer app, because this is the only way I see this succeeding. E…

Meh, this is the same thing they did with the Watch - the last "new thing" they released. The initial Apple Watch release was a pretty scatter gun approach. I mean, one of the headline features was "send your heartbeat to someone else".

They didn't really find a unique selling point, and they didn't really nail the implementation. Few versions later they refined the product and their messaging for it, and carved out a decent market for it. I actually think the original iPhone announcement was pretty close to this VR headset. It's only selling point was that it did everything nicer and better than the competition, and then it relentlessly iterated. iPhone was an easier sell though than expensive ski goggles - barrier is much lower with it.

It's clear(ish) they have some impressive tech in it, and are 'best in market'. I wouldn't be surprised if "Vision Pro" became a lot more of a compelling device in 5 years time. But right now it doesn't really seem to give me $3500 worth of benefit.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#252

Post by tomasf »

oarsinsync wrote: post #71
theaussiestew wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because it has a M2 and can be used as a monitor for an ordinary MacBook

The current iPad Pro has an M1 and can be used as a monitor for an ordinary MacBook. I suspect the iPad Pro refresh due this year will have an M2.

[dead]

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#253

Post by dontlaugh »

PostOnce wrote: post #72

I don't understand why there is no AR or VR killer app for this thing. Their sales pitch was "it makes it amazing to read articles in safari"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYkq9Rgoj8E&t=5410s $3500 to... look at a floating web browser? Surely they can come up with something. Give me UV/IR vision, let me see the pipes under the ground, show me how to assemble the furniture I'm looking at, give me a template to pain…

Correct, it is pointless.

It could have had a killer app: games. Most VR headsets suck in one way or another, Apple could make one that's actually nice to use.

Sadly, for some bizarre reason Apple still don't understand games. They even have pretty good GPUs now and they're still not making an Apple TV Pro to compete with the PS5.

Even just the Vision could've been announced along with a couple exclusives, but instead they have an offhand mention of Arcade.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#254

Post by amoss »

lhl wrote: post #106
frant-hartm wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They advertise the "4K per eye" as some kind of an advantage. They need to do this to have 3D vision, but it doesn't improve the resolution, it's still just 4K. And the 4K is across your whole FOV, I would like to see a comparison with some standard monitors (4K at 27" and 32") at particular distances from your eyes. I suppose because they didn't publish anything it is still significantly worse than hi-res monitors (…

At 90-100 degrees, a 4K/eye display will likely end up being around 35-40 PPD (pixels per degree). This is about equivalent to what a FHD display would like like (27" monitor at 60cm: https://qasimk.io/screen-ppd/ ). There are a lot of other factors like fill factor (screen door effect) and there are definitely some optical designs that can increase PPD as well. Apple bought Limbak recently, btw, it's possible they u…

Could you expand on your numbers a little?

Assuming 4k resolution per eye and 120 degree FoV would give 3840*2/120 = 64 ppd.

Using the link that you gave a 4k screen at 60cm is 73 ppd, so it is reasonably close.

Apple haven't said what the FoV is yet, so I'm guessing 120 based on the pi-max and an early impressions video from mkbd. The horizontal range isn't clear either: 23 megapixels would be about three 4k screens so it depends on the overlap region between the eyes.

It's not that far off 4k, and when sitting that close to a 28" 4k screen I find the pixels barely noticeable, i.e. I can see them if they are aliased but would not notice them when the colour gradient is smooth.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#255

Post by madeofpalk »

hdctambien wrote: post #201
King-Aaron wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What killer app did laptops have that made them the success they are today? Does new technology necessarily need a killer app if the ergonomics end up being more desirable to a broad range of users? I don't necessarily know the answer here, but my gut feeling is that defining this device based on a "killer app" is like trying to define the original iPhone as needing a "killer app". It didn't necessarily have such a t…

The iphone was full of killer apps at release. The Maps app was so much better than printing MapQuest maps or trying to use the flip phone version of MapQuest. Being able to access the real internet from anywhere was futuristic. You could use iMessage without paying $0.10 per text?!?! Can you even imagine paying $0.10 per text (and $0.25 for every text after the first 100 per month?) Visual voice mail was also a game…

(For what it's worth, iMessage didn't come until 4 years later in iOS 4)

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#256

Post by matsemann »

gehsty wrote: post #247
matsemann wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it "general purpose", though? So far I've seen no mentions on how I or other developers can run our own stuff on it. Will it be a walled garden?

General purpose like a laptop or a phone. It will have an App Store like the phone (this was in the keynote I think). I don’t think there will be side loading unless it is govt mandated requirement. It is aimed at general population and not developers.

I want it "hackable", not because I myself is gonna do anything with it, but because I want that kind of innovation. Not the boring, polished, exec-vision thingy. Let other people invent new ways of doing stuff!

If you only can do Apple-approved-stuff on it, it will be boring. Let people release half-baked demos and cool tech. Don't force everything to go through their "review" process.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#257

Post by Mordisquitos »

akmarinov wrote: post #125
nbittich wrote: post #34

Same pattern over and over, futuristic hardware, closed source software. This looks boring to me. I don't expect anything ground breaking from it. It's gonna be an iphone sticked to your eyes. Those big tech companies remove all the fun and excitement we used to have with new hardware. We know how it's gonna behave and it's limitation before it's released to the public.

You say you don’t expect anything groundbreaking and then compare it with arguably the most groundbreaking product ever

But the comparison is that it is "[arguably the most groundbreaking product ever] sticked to your eyes", and the property of groundbreakingness is not necessarily transitive.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#258

Post by Waterluvian »

PostOnce wrote: post #72

I don't understand why there is no AR or VR killer app for this thing. Their sales pitch was "it makes it amazing to read articles in safari"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYkq9Rgoj8E&t=5410s $3500 to... look at a floating web browser? Surely they can come up with something. Give me UV/IR vision, let me see the pipes under the ground, show me how to assemble the furniture I'm looking at, give me a template to pain…

If I had to live in a VR context for any reason, this really feels like the product I’d want to have to do it in. But I can’t think of a reason why I’d have to.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#259

Post by TeMPOraL »

himinlomax wrote: post #207
contrarian1234 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because no one will really do the stuff you suggest. All the things you describe just take too much effort to make Assembling furniture - 1d written description : 1 person half a day - 2d illustration : ~2 people and a 3 days - 3d animation : ~3 people and 2 weeks - 3d interactive thing : a small team and a month.. At least ? Is it really going to yield a ton more sales? You can see it in other media. Zillions of cre…

You can already very easily animate an assembly in modern CAD programs by setting up connectors and constraints, which you normally do as a matter of course anyway. There's literally nothing to do, you just click on the "assembly" tab and start dragging parts around.

Yes, in the same way as you can trivially restyle a Word document with a few clicks around the Style section of the ribbon - making it easy to adjust for the demands of your publisher, or to the new corporate color scheme.

That is, it's trivial if you carefully followed the best practices, did everything correctly at every step to make sure the internal representation is semantically correct and complete - and not bashed stuff around, copying and pasting and dragging by hand, until it looked okay-ish on the screen, like everyone else does.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#260

Post by mcphage »

omeze wrote: post #242
ttul wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first iPhone was pretty crappy. No apps. 2G only. Poor battery life. Limited global distribution - not even Canada could get it. But it captivated people who didn’t own it yet, and it proved out some essential ideas like multitouch. And when the iPhone 3G came out, improving on some of the original device’s shortcomings, it was wildly popular. The rest is history. There is no doubt that AR will eventually get goo…

The first iphone let you have a real web browser anywhere you had cell coverage. This lets you have a web browser floating at home. Its not the same (and I love VR)

And Visual Voice Mail—that was a huge step forward.
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