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Rust: The wrong people are resigning

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Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#251

Post by bhelkey »

pdimitar wrote: post #197

Oh come on already. Start naming and shaming people, let the internet have its field day and let's all go home. We all know people will reconverge at one point anyway. We all also know that nobody will get harmed regardless of all the drama. I expect much more from adult people. Go drink some tea and have a 3-hour walk with your dog or partner or a friend, deliberately don't touch the computer for 24h and let's see h…

> let the internet have its field day and let's all go home...We all also know that nobody will get harmed regardless of all the drama

It's easy to say this when one is not the target. I imagine it would be difficult to ignore doxing, death threats, swatting, and/or harassing of family and friends.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#252

Post by kbelder »

brickteacup wrote: post #70
bluejekyll wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the reason they are saying it doesn’t matter, is that without a clear statement of what happened from the decision makers, people can speculate. One of those things people will speculate on is if this was one of the reasons. The fact that it is also part of the equation means it can’t be outright ignored and so will also need to be addressed. On top of that, this is already an underrepresented group, and re…

> without a clear statement of what happened from the decision makers, people can speculate People can always speculate whatever they want. And let's be honest, the kind of people who like making utterly baseless claims about racism will do so regardless of any official statements or explanations. Unless there's actual evidence of racial animus it's best to just ignore these silly people.

Society should condemn unwarranted accusations of racism as negatively as racism itself.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#253

Post by pdimitar »

bhelkey wrote: post #251
pdimitar wrote: post #197

Oh come on already. Start naming and shaming people, let the internet have its field day and let's all go home. We all know people will reconverge at one point anyway. We all also know that nobody will get harmed regardless of all the drama. I expect much more from adult people. Go drink some tea and have a 3-hour walk with your dog or partner or a friend, deliberately don't touch the computer for 24h and let's see h…

> let the internet have its field day and let's all go home...We all also know that nobody will get harmed regardless of all the drama It's easy to say this when one is not the target. I imagine it would be difficult to ignore doxing, death threats, swatting, and/or harassing of family and friends.

Fair enough, it's just that when I read some statistics it was something like only 0.3% of all physical threats have ever been followed up with something, and most of the times it was something like just following somebody with a car for a few days and then stop.

I get it, it can be extremely scary, I just don't think most internet warriors have what it takes to be actual criminals.

But I can also stand behind the idea that we shouldn't risk it, yeah.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#255

Post by nomel »

gishbunker wrote: post #232
nomel wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sometimes minorities are at a disadvantage or are under represented What does “under represented” mean, in a small, hopefully merit based, org?

Exactly what it says on the tin. Where do rustconf/rust lang leadership diverge from rust users. If 40% of rust devs are women, but only 10% of leadership is women, they are an under represented group in leadership. There might be reasonable reasons! The existence of an under represented group isn't wrong, it's just a time to ask, "why is it this way?" To be clear, I'm not saying there should be no under represented…

The rust leadership group is very small, so statistical representation isn’t really possible, other than luck. That’s just the reality of the maths. Do you think proportional representation should be forced?

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#256

Post by mort96 »

pie_flavor wrote: post #242
mort96 wrote: post #14

> Part of me is very disappointed in the enormous waste of time that is the “crablang” fork, and wishes the people involved could have engaged in a constructive manner instead. Any group who decides to fork Rust probably isn't in a position of power to turn the whole Rust Project and Rust Foundation into something less messy. Without knowing any of the specifics about this "crablang" fork, creating a well-resourced,…

'I know nothing about the situation, but this comment about it seems disingenuous' is not a great reasoning strategy. It's not well-resourced, it's not thoughtfully governed, and it wasn't a stewardship issue. It was people believing YouTube disinformation about what a trademark is for and what it implies, and forking the project just so that the name and logo could be changed to one sans trademark.

As I said in https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mort96#36107457, I interpreted the statement to be about forks in general, and responded to it as such; and I realize now that I probably misinterpreted the line. I don't know what to do, I wish that comment had more visibility but it's not highly upvoted and I can't amend my original comment.

FWIW, the trademark policy was incredibly clear in that it wanted to disallow any use of the word "rust" in reference to the language in project or domain names. I don't know if that would've been the legal effect or not, but that's what the policy stated, clear as day. That was the issue. But that's a separate discussion, I didn't actually intend to argue in favour of crablang itself being a productive use of time.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#257

Post by nickitolas »

meindnoch wrote: post #103
robin_reala wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

s/guy/woman

Huh? A cursory google search says it's a guy called Hector Marcan. Is this wrong?

Blowing the cover on someone's online persona (And using the wrong pronouns for that persona's work) seems pretty rude to me

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#258

Post by anonymouskimmer »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #221
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vehemently disagree. The possible motives of those in power should always be looked at with a microscope, unless they give us comprehensive reasons as to the decisions they made. Your perspective, while well intentioned, is exactly the sort that drives implicit bias and a disregard for minority considerations or reasoning that the decision makers don't personally relate to.

I agree, but it seems you reworded my common with little deviation??

I deviated what I thought was the important part, and left the rest undeviated to send a message. If you agree, then we have no issue. It's fine to assume racism until the person demonstrates otherwise. And if assuming racism prompts them to so demonstrate, then it's to the good.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#259

Post by wahahah »

meindnoch wrote: post #163
conradludgate wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asahi Lina is who they identify as. It is likely a pseudonym but I see no source for any other name. So I have no reason to believe it's Hector. I would rather not make assumptions about someone beyond what they present themselves as, so as far as I'm concerned, they are Asahi Lina She/Her

Ok, but we can still make an educated guess on who's behind the fictional cartoon character...

In the culture of virtual youtubing, discussing anything past the character and their content is a faux pas.

On 4chan's /vt/ the euphemism for this is "roommate" discussion, and any posting of details about "roommates" is a bannable offense.

Of course being 4chan some users will eat bans (primarily when they're upset and want to spite other users), so some details of some known roommates do inevitably surface from time to time; but ultimately casual discussion of it is taboo.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#260

Post by andrewflnr »

thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #209
andrewflnr wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forking is a huge resource sink, if it goes anywhere at all. It disrupts network effects that software benefits from. It is, if nothing else, leaving a local maximum of utility for everyone. In short, it's inconvenient, if not actually painful and heralds future inconvenience/pain. Anger may not be wise, depending on the specifics, but it should absolutely not be surprising.

Forking might be seen as a form of protest against the current leadership or their failure to address the needs and concerns of the community. If the community does not agree with the leadership's actions (or failure to act) then a fork might be a possible road ahead. Compare: OpenOffice - LibreOffice Jenkins - Hudson MySQL - MariaDB and many others.

Well yes, I assume this is basically a protest, but it's only effective as such because of all the pain stuff. If forks were easy, they wouldn't be notable, and the (threat of) willingness to endure pain is a strong signal of the pain a group is already suffering.

Anyway, "it's a protest" is pretty much sufficient in itself to answer the original question of why people might get angry about it. :P

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