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The Never Married, a New Normal

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Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#251

Post by Llamamoe »

emodendroket wrote: post #159
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plus thinking of having an "easy escape hatch" probably does not do wonders for the relationship Well if the only (or main) reason to stay together is because someone is married and that makes things complicated then the relationship is already in trouble.

Yeah but that’s not what I’m saying. If you think “well I’m going to do this this way because it’s easier to back out,” it will encourage you to treat the relationship in a way that makes it less likely to last.

Still a healthier alternative to broken relationships continuing for years because of the high bar to leaving it that are the de facto norm for our civilization. Commitment encourages treating the relationship as a sealed deal and not putting effort into its maintenance.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#253

Post by runarberg »

Nursie wrote: post #235
runarberg wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m guessing in places where single parents are financially supported, childcare is abundant and affordable, sick leave is guaranteed and covers your child, workplace discrimination against single parents is illegal, that any observed difference will disappear. That is I suspect the evidence is actually describing poverty, not parenthood.

I'm sure that's a big part of it, yes. But also even if we allow that there is benefit in a stable, two-parent household in which the parents don't change around at all, if we can even isolate that variable away from other factors, it seems tautological. To make an analogy that's close to my heart right now - In a drinking water capture system, you can probably collect the most water in a pristine, well-designed syst…

Nice analogy. And good luck with your water capture system ;-)

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#254

Post by ozfive »

stickfigure wrote: post #188
adam_arthur wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why commingle finances at all? A large percentage of divorces are due to financial disagreements... joint accounts have proven to be a failed model at scale. If you want to share money, have separate accounts and transfer money between them as needed/on a schedule. No room for impropriety/mistrust. Everybody has autonomy. If we choose to be realistic, rather than idealistic, we would recognize that a large percentage…

> Why commingle finances at all? Because it's simple and easy? I trust my partner; she trusts me; we discuss expenses beyond some fuzzy threshold that we both seem to understand intuitively. The alternative seems to require spreadsheets. Who pays for the kid's daycare? Who pays what percentage of the mortgage, and what ownership stake does that represent? What if someone's income goes dramatically up, or dramatically…

Until your partner decides one day that they no longer are going to abide by that trust and find someone else, raid the joint account, the investments, and sell things right from under you which they are allowed to do with no repercussions due to the marriage according to the government and on top of it disappear with the children. Trust me from experience. You may think you know someone until they up and change on you overnight. Marriage is a sham in the U.S. which favors women in so many ways that men should seriously consider the true cost/benefit of even getting into that contract in the first place.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#255

Post by ozfive »

than3 wrote: post #223
adam_arthur wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either you concretely agree on the finances or you don't. If you don't have any explicit understanding/agreement, the vast majority of relationships are going to have problems. Having separate accounts forces you to come to an explicit consensus

The problem with 'consensus' as a whole is, its not always possible. Just because you do something doesn't mean you agree with it.

And not agreeing with it builds resentment and breaks down trust.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#257

Post by monissiddiqui »

hotpotamus wrote: post #78
kitsunesoba wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think there’s a lot of societal pressure to both get married and to have children, especially in the south, where I’m from. I don't know where things stand now, but there was a similar pressure in Appalachia ~15 years ago. If you'd been out of high school more than a couple of years and hadn't gotten married or at minimum found someone you'd intended to marry, people would start asking if you were closeted or som…

If a society didn't find some way to last beyond the lifespan of a human, then it wouldn't be much of a society.

It's surprising how individualistic people are in developed countries. They are literally self-selecting themselves out of the gene pool! Just goes to show "smart" does not mean wise. Apparently making sure humanity doesn't continue on to the next generation isn't considered a moral responsibility. And they get salty wondering why religious communities will be the majority throughout time.

I guess these governments will just keep rolling the dice on immigration and hope that one day sustainable birth rate patterns will just follow suit. Great strategy /s

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#258

Post by gregytuq »

rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #184
cultofmetatron wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

“Responsibilities as a wife”—sorry, what are these supposed to be? Pretty sure there’s such a thing as “responsibilities as parents” and that one is ungendered and that’s why they are enshrined in laws, but what are “responsibilities as a wife”? Though, of course, if you’re still thinking about gender norms, then either find someone who agrees with your expectations, or don’t be in a relationship at all because gende…

[flagged]

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#260

Post by anonzzzies »

adam_arthur wrote: post #156
emodendroket wrote: post #127

> Cohabitation has become a popular alternative; living together is a less complicated relationship model that comes with an easy escape hatch (compared with marriage) if the relationship fails This seems like a bit of a false promise... Once you commingle finances, own a house together, have children, and so on, there's no "easy escape hatch." Plus thinking of having an "easy escape hatch" probably does not do wonde…

Why commingle finances at all? A large percentage of divorces are due to financial disagreements... joint accounts have proven to be a failed model at scale. If you want to share money, have separate accounts and transfer money between them as needed/on a schedule. No room for impropriety/mistrust. Everybody has autonomy. If we choose to be realistic, rather than idealistic, we would recognize that a large percentage…

But now you are putting a price on the others time. Let’s say you make nothing yourself (starving artist, stay at home parent etc etc) and your cohabiting partner makes a few 100k, how do you decide what your time is worth vs your partner. Or your partner inherited a few million and does nothing but also feels they have to do nothing because they bring the money. When you separate, you might end up with nothing after 20 years just because you took care of the kids? I couldn’t live with someone in this robot/spreadsheet way.

Been married 25 years with a joint account and no prenup; wouldn’t want it any other way. Life is too short to worry about things like this and personally I would find it a sign of mistrust so it wouldn’t work in the first place.

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