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Ableton Push 3

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Re: Ableton Push 3

#251

Post by jtode »

jmcphers wrote: post #223
jtode wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musician here, most of us (the ones that aren't also programmers) just have to pay up the arse every time for every thing. I've been teaching myself keys the last few years and had been planning to one day get myself a big $6k stage keyboard, when I felt that I had sufficiently developed to warrant it. I have since tried out Zynthian, and my conclusion was that with a pianoteq license and a good controller, I can hav…

FWIW, I recently replaced "Pianoteq license and a good controller" with a Nord. I've found that the friction involved in getting the laptop warm and Pianoteq started/running, while relatively low, is still enough that I didn't often just sit down and play. The Nord is a simple appliance and is always there inviting me to practice. I still have the laptop and Pianoteq and use them with the Nord as a controller sometim…

If I had the money... Well I'd probably get a Hammond actually, but I would take it if I could afford it. But I'm a lot of house repairs and more important devices away from that point lol

Re: Ableton Push 3

#252

Post by dottjt »

adriand wrote: post #80
dottjt wrote: post #45

Personally, I don't really like the Push platform, having previously owned a Push 2. I can understand the value of it if you're performing live, however the hard reality is that it's a really inefficient way to create electronic music. The mouse and keyboard are simply a lot faster to use. With that said, maybe that's for you. But if you're trying to make advanced productions as quickly as possible, then I really see…

A keyboard and a mouse might be faster in some instances, but they are also far less musically expressive. When it comes to putting emotion into music, I think it is a lot easier to do so with an expressive, physically embodied musical instrument. In terms of speed, I'm also not sure how quickly you can create articulations like vibrato and slides with a mouse and keyboard, but that seems like it would be fairly tedi…

I disagree with this sentiment, but I also think it comes down to how you approach music.

For me at least, music originates from my imagination. It starts in my head, not from playing an instrument, so to speak. I say this as a composer, not as a musician.

Sure, if you really mastered an instrument i.e. Push 3, then you could use it as a form of expression. But when you're composing, often you're trying to tame many different instruments and ideas at once, so I find it much easier to do it all in my head first, and then think of the quickest way to translate it all into the computer, and for me that's the mouse and keyboard.

I'm also primarily a song writer/producer, so for me I think in terms of composition after the fact i.e. once the lyrics have been written. But yeah, I certainly do appreciate those who can utilise platforms like the Push 3. However I would still argue that even if it is what works for you, it's still ultimately slower. Again, nothing wrong with that if it works for you.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#253

Post by S_A_P »

dubcanada wrote: post #197

This thread is super hackernews-y, people complaining about the performance of the PC that runs it compared to equally priced specs, some comments about source code and APIs, some comments about copying a open source product, a few about when AI can make music?? Doesn't really seem to be much talk about the actual product, I must say I haven't owned either, but it looks super cool! The video was very well done showca…

Ableton live enthusiast here. I went all in on ableton after finding a push 2 second hand for cheap enough that I was willing to switch from Logic Pro. That was in 2018 and haven’t looked back.

From my perspective I see this as a mixed bag. I don’t think i would want to use the push as a lap device while sitting on the couch. This looks to be about the same dimensions as the push 2. It’s a squareish device that is about 14” or ~35cm wide and tall and about an inch and a half thick. I have and have had several other stand alone devices and they have to be much smaller than the push to tempt me away from my music pc desk.

That said maybe as a desktop device for traveling etc I could see it.

The other thing is that stand alone mode doesn’t allow both “views” in Ableton. One is the linear arrangement view (unavailable in standalone mode) and one is the session view that is more for clip launching and attaching musical phrases to a button on the push grid. This is the view that standalone mode allows. Here is the link to the manual for that https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/session-view/

In my opinion this mode is great for remixing and spinning up new ideas but I typically use live as I would a hardware sampler back in the day. Layer up ideas in arrangement view record everything and then go back and chop. To me, that is what I would rather do on a couch than remix clips.

The hardware running live is adequate but I see why they may have limited the standalone functionality. I run live on an iMac Pro with 32gb ram and the 8core Xeon standard cpu. Live 11 can really tax this machine especially with plugins in the mix. This is the other limitation that I understand but don’t really like. No external plugins. I’m not sure if max will be available but suspect that the built in efx and max live edition will be there(I haven’t watched all the videos yet)

@dubcanada - the push is super cool and can be assigned scales/modes so that the buttons play scales up and down the octave range. Or if it’s controlling a drum machine you get the familiar 16 pad interface x4 You can use it for step sequencing, playing chords with polyphonic expression (also in the push 2 but 3 looks to be improved) or just sit there and launch clips with 1 finger.

As I read what I have written I think I’m going to stick with my push 2 but if you use live and want a push the 3 is the one I would buy today, but probably the upgradable one that acts like push 2. Then I would see if I could upgrade it myself and not with the ableton kit. They hint that it will be.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#254

Post by [deleted] »

earthnail wrote: post #208

I had the privilege of playing with the Push 3 a few weeks ago. If you owned a Push before, it’s exactly what you think it is: basically the Push you always wanted. The fact that it’s a standalone device now is brilliant. So is the built-in battery. Just super, super convenient. Controls are mostly self-explanatory. It has a fantastic tutorial when you first use it; overall a really polished experience. The MPI on th…

[deleted]

Re: Ableton Push 3

#255

Post by thomastjeffery »

coldtea wrote: post #175
pier25 wrote: post #158

I owned a Push 2 and sold it after a year. Never got into it because the pads weren't very good. Soft touches sometimes triggered notes at max velocity which drove me nuts. The Push 3 has more sophisticated pads with MPE and I'm very skeptical Ableton could pull that off with good QA. The other thing that I find ridiculous is they sell you a barebones computer for $1,000 with an i3, 8GB of RAM, and 256GB SSD. A compu…

> For that kind of money you could buy an M2 iPad Pro with more performance and a lot more battery time than 2.5 hours This has a strong https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 vibe to it. The computing-part hardware specs don't matter at all, the same way you don't compare the cpu specs of a phone or a synth to a laptop or tablet. This is about the interface, pads, firmware, comprehensiveness and convenience as a…

They don't matter at all to the market, but they do matter to the quality of the product.

If I can trivially make a better version of the thing you are selling at 1/3rd the price, then something isn't right.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#256

Post by colanderman »

pier25 wrote: post #241
colanderman wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an electronic musician, I will gladly pay a premium for any device that reduces the number of boxes and wires I have to set up at every gig. (As well as reduce the number of things I have to turn on, which might decide not to turn on.)

Is redundancy when touring something you value as well?

I don't tour, only gig locally, so redundancy of anything > $15 isn't worth it. But when you have 20 minutes to set up, 10 minutes to tear down and no roadies, not having an additional device + stand + power + MIDI + audio cables to mess with / trip over / forget is worth spending money on.

If I did tour, yes, I would want backup equipment where feasible.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#257

Post by viiralvx »

earthnail wrote: post #208

I had the privilege of playing with the Push 3 a few weeks ago. If you owned a Push before, it’s exactly what you think it is: basically the Push you always wanted. The fact that it’s a standalone device now is brilliant. So is the built-in battery. Just super, super convenient. Controls are mostly self-explanatory. It has a fantastic tutorial when you first use it; overall a really polished experience. The MPI on th…

Stop man, I was trying to talk myself out of buying one and now you got me reconsidering it. I was trying to look out for my bank account.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#258

Post by emsy »

earthnail wrote: post #208

I had the privilege of playing with the Push 3 a few weeks ago. If you owned a Push before, it’s exactly what you think it is: basically the Push you always wanted. The fact that it’s a standalone device now is brilliant. So is the built-in battery. Just super, super convenient. Controls are mostly self-explanatory. It has a fantastic tutorial when you first use it; overall a really polished experience. The MPI on th…

I'm sceptical. I own a Push 2 and the build quality is not terrible, but not awesome either. For example, every knob has a different resistance (how hard it is to turn) and sensitivity (how much you have to turn to change a parameter).

Re: Ableton Push 3

#259

Post by brandonmenc »

Zobat wrote: post #63

So they built a Linnstrument? Honestly don't know who was first, but I know I looked at the Linnstrument a long time ago (when my daughter Linn was really young, she's 13 now). The Linnstrument looks better and has more buttons, and more is better, right? https://www.rogerlinndesign.com/linnstrument

I own a Linnstrument. I used to own a Push 2. They're very different.

Everything has (or will eventually have) MPE so everyone is "just building Linnstruments", just like everyone has been "just building MPCs".

The touch interface of the Linnstrument has limitations that the Push probably doesn't. For example, the Linnstrument can register no more than three simultaneous touches in a single column.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#260

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

coldtea wrote: post #191
dingnuts wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That one in particular is somewhat famous and gets trotted out as an example of a bad, wrong take, highly upvoted and missing the point of the product because the audience here is so technical they can barely perceive normal users' problems It's sort of ironic now, though, because Dropbox has not been doing very well the last few years, because their product wasn't novel enough to compete with the better-integrated s…

> It's sort of ironic now, though, because Dropbox has not been doing very well the last few years Yes, but not for the reasons that famous comment thought it wouldn't (people ...trivially rolling their own with Linux+FTP+SVN or whatever). If anything, for the opposite reasons: because even more turnkey/integrated solutions than Dropbox became available as you say. Which makes that comment appear even more off now! (…

Well, the original comment made 3 distinct arguments which can basically be summed up as:

1) Its feature-set is easily duplicated (from a technical perspective)

2) It doesn't solve one particular use-case (that it wasn't designed to solve)

3) It's hard to imagine it catching on, let alone making money

Point #1 was widely mocked after Dropbox caught on, but turned out to be kind of correct - it just wasn't end-users that mimicked its feature-set, it was other companies.

Point #2 is irrelevant.

Point #3 was hilariously wrong. It went viral as hell, and the founders could've rode off into the sunset with a boatload of cash if they sold the company to Apple when they were approached. In the alternate universe where that happened, Apple devices just have a Dropbox feature instead of iCloud, a la Siri and Shazam.

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