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TikTok is now banned in Montana

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Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#251

Post by falcolas »

wombatpm wrote: post #221
falcolas wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, no. Montana would have to be effectively regulating interstate trade since neither Apple nor Google have offices here. Plus, the whole "negotiate commerce and treaties with foreign entities" thing.

So can apple turn off all iphones in Montana in retaliation. Bet it would be easier/cheaper to cut off those customers than implement any changes. Android phone makes could follow suit

It'd be hard to identify a phone associated with a "Montana citizen". Not impossible, but I think that based on Apple and Google's comments on these laws that they haven't built the functionality in.

GeoIP doesn't work because carriers (especially in Montana) tend to assign IPs from surrounding states as much as they do local cities. When I'm on the cell network, I'm regularly identified as coming out of Denver. Phone number area codes are equally useless, since half the folks I know here in Montana have area codes from outside states. GPS would be the best bet, though I feel like even that would have some major caveats (the use would have to be decoupled from the location services controls/displays, something they don't do for even their own apps right now).

Also, people rely on cellphones for emergency services. A manufacturer shutting down phones would probably expose them to some serious liabilities.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#252

Post by krapp »

nicenewtemp84 wrote: post #247
nicenewtemp84 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? Tons of European countries have zero concept of freedom of speech.

For those that don't believe me, go try to have a discussion as skeptic of accuracy of Jewish deaths during WW2. I'm not saying they're right, but there are several things you can flat out go to jail for in the several countries just for talking about.

I'm assuming your definition of free speech is the absolute variety. If so, no country, including the United States, has ever recognized freedom of speech as having no limits, making it a useless definition in the context of this conversation. There are always limits, everywhere.

But it's obvious that European countries have a concept of freedom of speech, just one you personally don't consider valid. But like the guy said, that's just, like, your opinion, man. That concept is defined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and international law, as well as the EU Charter, and probably whatever individual constitutions or bodies of law each country has. It was established before the US came up with the First Amendment, which was based on existing Enlightenment philosophy.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#253

Post by groggo »

asynchronous wrote: post #171
bioemerl wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you install that app on your personal phone? Even in some misplaced sense of rebellion, you're basically inviting spyware into your life.

Gonna back this up, from the security research I’ve read the app *uploads* over 2gb of data once installed over the course of one month, without any interaction at all from the user.

What is the data? Doesn't iOS limit access to anything outside of the app? It has to ask to access contacts, photos, location. If you just use it to scroll through stupid videos, what does it even have access to?

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#254

Post by groggo »

nkjnlknlk wrote: post #241
coldcode wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And TikTok has no influencers, sure? At least on Youtube, you can see who is paying them to shill you. Every video online is potentially there to convince you to buy something, believe something, or motivate you to do something to make the creator money.

I find the TikTok algorithm (perhaps not the platform) to be superior at giving me content I like/need and from creators that are (seemingly) authentic. I've seen far more diversity on TikTok than YouTube and due to there being no thumbnails or titles there is less clickbait. That being said, TikTok's search capability is kind of useless.

Seriously. I just like tiktok for scrolling through guitar or cooking videos. I'm sure there's plenty of stuff on youtube, but it's fun just to just scroll through a few quick videos when you have a free minute. Those creators don't have to be trying to sell me anything, they're just getting me on the platform, then tiktok can show normal ads every few videos.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#256

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

marianatom wrote: post #243
knd775 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China made that very clear when they announced unlimited friendship with Russia last year. To be clear, this was before the war and China has since walked it back a bit.

4/23/23: China's cooperation with Europe and other nations is "endless" just as its ties with Russia are "unlimited", China's envoy to the European Union said https://www.reuters.com/world/chinas-cooperation-with-europe...

I get the feeling you intended this quote as a gotcha, but it actually appears to be a manifestation of how they "walked it back" considering that "China's cooperation with Europe and other nations is 'endless'".

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#257

Post by throwawaymaths »

woooooo wrote: post #121
viraptor wrote: post #113

Slightly off topic - I'm not sure I've heard the gov stating it plainly in the recent years: "the People's Republic of China is an adversary of the United States" (from the bill). Did I just miss it / glance over, or is this out of character for officially released gov documents?

I wonder how many Chinese-manufactured goods the state of Montana bought yesterday while issuing this statement.

Things are changing. Today I went to buy a water bottle. Name brand, made in China: $8. Generic, made in USA: $4.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#258

Post by marianatom »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #256
marianatom wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4/23/23: China's cooperation with Europe and other nations is "endless" just as its ties with Russia are "unlimited", China's envoy to the European Union said https://www.reuters.com/world/chinas-cooperation-with-europe...

I get the feeling you intended this quote as a gotcha, but it actually appears to be a manifestation of how they "walked it back" considering that "China's cooperation with Europe and other nations is 'endless'".

My quote was to prove China is still maintaining that ties with Russia are "unlimited". I don't care what lies China is telling Europe :)

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#259

Post by krapp »

jareklupinski wrote: post #245
CamperBob2 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile this position with the First Amendment?

From the Constitution: > Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. There is nothing there that explicitly grants private enterprises the right to store, sell, and manipulate your free speec…

>There is nothing there that explicitly grants private enterprises the right to store, sell, and manipulate your free speech.

... because the Constitution limits the government. It doesn't grant rights to private enterprise or the people (of which private enterprise is a superset.)

Note the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, which explicitly state that the rights listed in the Constitution are not exhaustive, and that all such rights not enumerated in the Constitution are granted to the states and the people.

So the right of private enterprise to store, sell and "manipulate your free speech" (which is just a bad faith framing of moderation as a violation of civil rights) is implicit to the right of free speech itself, a right which is neither defined by, and which cannot be limited by, the First Amendment to begin with.

Although yes, there are limits even within the US, those limits are usually very strictly scrutinized. Banning all major social media platforms because "They play a major role in exacerbating the divisions in the society and the rising suicide rate" on the basis that the Constitution doesn't explicitly say you can't is blatantly contrary to the spirit of the First Amendment and the whole philosophy of free speech in American law.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#260

Post by throwaway5959 »

mmh0000 wrote: post #205
mikece wrote: post #105

Tomorrow's story: "Residents of Montana discover VPNs and how to use them!" Between Utah and Montana the awareness and use of VPNs is rising among the non-security-conscious, and this is a good thing.

So, I avoided VPNs for years because they had no practical benefit. I live in Utah, and I would consider myself very technically adept. Previously, I didn't like "VPNs" because now I'm just routing all my traffic through another untrusted 3rd party. It's like choosing between two evils, would I prefer my ISP knows where I go, or some rando that I also have to pay? Worse, the "rando" (usually) requires a VPN app which…

What’s your threshold for leaving the state?
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