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The U.S. birth rate has fallen by 20% since 2007

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Re: The U.S. birth rate has fallen by 20% since 2007

#251

Post by colpabar »

taylodl wrote: post #248
david38 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people want to do many of these jobs, but at a livable wage?

My term "same people" was referring to the oligarchs. They complain about the invasion from the Southern border, yet they also complain about people "not wanting to work." It's pretty clear they want to keep America white. I think alarm bells are going off for them with the slipping of the white majority in America.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt on your first comment, but are you really implying that all american oligarchs are republicans? Sure, some of them are saying the things you mentioned. But it’s ridiculous to ignore all the other ones claiming that not having open borders is a human rights violation.

Both sides play to their audience, but all of it is ultimately about cheap labor.

Re: The U.S. birth rate has fallen by 20% since 2007

#252

Post by withinboredom »

balfirevic wrote: post #227
withinboredom wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a natural conclusion: 1. Teach: humanity has done X to the environment 2. Teach: if we don’t do something Y will happen 3. Conclude: I was not alive to do X 4. Ergo: the adults in my life did X 5. Ergo: the adults in my life will continue to do X which will cause Y because I can’t affect meaningful change I don’t automatically assume they start at step 5 at school. I’ve seen his math homework. Is that a…

> what he learns at school may not be right Wait, you don't teach him that?

No, because it is obvious past a certain age or once you know enough about the world. At his age, I want him to learn, enjoy learning, and trust his teachers to answer questions. I want him to learn, more importantly, that he can misunderstand something and it isn't the other person's fault. Schools teach the basics of the world, so by definition, are always wrong; but, with just the basics, you can make it quite far in the world...

Re: The U.S. birth rate has fallen by 20% since 2007

#253

Post by withinboredom »

revelio wrote: post #240
withinboredom wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before having a child, it was something I thought about and my wife and I would occasionally discuss. Now my son asks, "How can you do this to me? You've screwed up our planet and there is nothing I can do for at least ten years," (direct quote after coming home from school yesterday -- he's 9). Our kids are worried about it, more so than our generation, that's for sure.

That's clearly ideological brainwashing and you should take it up with the head teacher. It's not only factual nonsense to believe what your son is saying, but also dangerous. You definitely don't want him to be added to the ranks of the "i killed myself to save the planet" brigade.

> you should take it up with the head teacher.

I don't want to teach my son that him misunderstanding something is someone else's fault. Obviously, this wasn't taught in class. He was taught lots of things and was a conclusion he came to on his own. Like nobody ever told me that a McDonald's hamburger will cost around $50 when I retire, I simply did some math based on the average inflation. Will it actually? no idea. But I know that I should probably have that much more in my retirement account.

Re: The U.S. birth rate has fallen by 20% since 2007

#254

Post by revelio »

withinboredom wrote: post #253
revelio wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's clearly ideological brainwashing and you should take it up with the head teacher. It's not only factual nonsense to believe what your son is saying, but also dangerous. You definitely don't want him to be added to the ranks of the "i killed myself to save the planet" brigade.

> you should take it up with the head teacher. I don't want to teach my son that him misunderstanding something is someone else's fault. Obviously, this wasn't taught in class. He was taught lots of things and was a conclusion he came to on his own. Like nobody ever told me that a McDonald's hamburger will cost around $50 when I retire, I simply did some math based on the average inflation. Will it actually? no idea.…

And what were these "lots of things" that led to him concluding the world is now ruined by you, his parent? Cuz I definitely don't recall anything like that being on the curriculum when I was a kid.

No, pretty sure he concluded exactly what his teachers wanted him to conclude. Nine year olds are not famous for their critical thinking and deep research skills.

Re: The U.S. birth rate has fallen by 20% since 2007

#255

Post by tivert »

generic92034 wrote: post #152
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people are living genuinely precarious lives. Some are well aware of it, others haven't quite realised it yet or are firmly in denial about it. Humans don't breed when their own lives are precarious and it's rational and realistic to assume the lives of their kids will be even more so. I see no mystery here.

> Humans don't breed when their own lives are precarious and it's rational and realistic to assume the lives of their kids will be even more so. I do not think this is a generally true notion. There are so many people living in precarious circumstances in large parts of Africa, Asia and South America. But the highest population growth is right there. Maybe there is some truth to the notion in developed countries.

>> Humans don't breed when their own lives are precarious and it's rational and realistic to assume the lives of their kids will be even more so.

> I do not think this is a generally true notion. There are so many people living in precarious circumstances in large parts of Africa, Asia and South America. But the highest population growth is right there.

Yes, but wealthy technological society enables it, because modern birth control technology is what makes reproduction so much of a choice.

In earlier times and in less developed places, if you really wanted to be "child free" you'd have to take much more extreme actions, like adopting celibacy or being OK with infanticide.

Re: The U.S. birth rate has fallen by 20% since 2007

#256

Post by tivert »

revelio wrote: post #247
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the UK is talking about getting retired people back into work. And is well on its way to ending pensions altogether. The age at which pensions are paid out has been creeping upwards and is now heading towards 70. What should have happened is that pension payments were ring-fenced, but of course government finances don't work like that. Most pensioners vote Tory, so the government is literally robbing its…

You can't ringfence pension payments if by ringfence you mean just store them in a savings account. Inflation would destroy the saved money completely, so the funds have to be invested. In turn those investments have to yield enough to cover both inflation and expected investment losses, whilst still yielding enough to pay out reliably over the average expected lifespan post retirement. Unfortunately if you do the nu…

> You can't ringfence pension payments if by ringfence you mean just store them in a savings account. Inflation would destroy the saved money completely, so the funds have to be invested. In turn those investments have to yield enough to cover both inflation and expected investment losses, whilst still yielding enough to pay out reliably over the average expected lifespan post retirement.

Or just cut to the chase, and realize the money is only a unit of exchange, and not a store of value. This idea of a society saving/investing money to pay for retirement is just nonsense, if there won't be enough people to pay the money to for job to get done.

Ultimately, retirement is paid for by spending a fraction of the current economic output, which can't be banked.

Re: The U.S. birth rate has fallen by 20% since 2007

#257

Post by withinboredom »

revelio wrote: post #254
withinboredom wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you should take it up with the head teacher. I don't want to teach my son that him misunderstanding something is someone else's fault. Obviously, this wasn't taught in class. He was taught lots of things and was a conclusion he came to on his own. Like nobody ever told me that a McDonald's hamburger will cost around $50 when I retire, I simply did some math based on the average inflation. Will it actually? no idea.…

And what were these "lots of things" that led to him concluding the world is now ruined by you, his parent? Cuz I definitely don't recall anything like that being on the curriculum when I was a kid. No, pretty sure he concluded exactly what his teachers wanted him to conclude. Nine year olds are not famous for their critical thinking and deep research skills.

> Nine year olds are not famous for their critical thinking and deep research skills.

See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35975422

> No, pretty sure he concluded exactly what his teachers wanted him to conclude.

Do you know us IRL or something?

Re: The U.S. birth rate has fallen by 20% since 2007

#258

Post by taylodl »

colpabar wrote: post #251
taylodl wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My term "same people" was referring to the oligarchs. They complain about the invasion from the Southern border, yet they also complain about people "not wanting to work." It's pretty clear they want to keep America white. I think alarm bells are going off for them with the slipping of the white majority in America.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt on your first comment, but are you really implying that all american oligarchs are republicans? Sure, some of them are saying the things you mentioned. But it’s ridiculous to ignore all the other ones claiming that not having open borders is a human rights violation. Both sides play to their audience, but all of it is ultimately about cheap labor.

Are they all Republican? No.

Mostly Republican? Very likely, based off what we know and observe.

Re: The U.S. birth rate has fallen by 20% since 2007

#259

Post by colpabar »

taylodl wrote: post #258
colpabar wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt on your first comment, but are you really implying that all american oligarchs are republicans? Sure, some of them are saying the things you mentioned. But it’s ridiculous to ignore all the other ones claiming that not having open borders is a human rights violation. Both sides play to their audience, but all of it is ultimately about cheap labor.

Are they all Republican? No. Mostly Republican? Very likely, based off what we know and observe.

> what we know and observe

We're getting pretty in the weeds on this tangent here, so I will just say that it's obvious that "we" "know and observe" different things which is why "we" disagree on certain things. You're not "right", you just believe you are, just like everyone else. Including me!

"what we know and observe" is completely subjective and meaningless on its own.

Re: The U.S. birth rate has fallen by 20% since 2007

#260

Post by cmh89 »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #37
pjc50 wrote: post #12

The other day someone was complaining about too many people in the housing thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35962521 The two are linked. Having children is at least partly an economic choice. People have spent decades working against "teen moms" and "single parents" and "welfare queens". Everyone is very clear that you must not have children unless you can comfortably afford to do so. And not just now, th…

> Are the people who want others to have more children prepared to pay for it? This implies that more people make society poorer. Which is false. People don’t consume a finite set of resources, they create more. As populations rise the net general standard of living goes up, not down. For source, check out all developed nations over the last 200 years, and human history to date. USA actually has an advantage here as…

> As populations rise the net general standard of living goes up, not down. For source, check out all developed nations over the last 200 years, and human history to date.

Are we ignoring all the human history involving societies that collapsed or went through ecological and/or violent struggles?

Pre-plague Britain had terrible living conditions and over population. Living conditions for the survivors immediately rose after a huge chunk of the population was removed. Other civilizations that were overpopulated had huge amounts of population move to greener pastures, such as the Saxons.

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