Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket • Hacker News Board

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#251

Post by wheels » Mon, May 01, 2023, 10:33 PM UTC

tfourb wrote: post #4

bleep_bloop wrote: post #2

Controversial opinion: Public transport should be publicly owned.

It technically is in many places around Germany: The national railway infrastructure is owned by a government-owned entity, as is the main railway company. Many municipal public transport systems are also owned directly by the municipalities themselves, although there are also some semi-privatized systems and the national railway company also owns shares of municipal public transport systems in many major cities. Sti…

My inclination to agree that public transit should mostly be a nationalized utility. But some experience in rural areas leads me to a counterargument that I don't have a good answer for:

Should people that live in urban spaces massively subsidize people that choose to live in rural areas for no economically useful reason? Like, some tech bros decide they don't want neighbors and want to live 20 km from everything. Should the city folk subsidize their preferences? Maybe it should be recouped in local taxes? Should that be covered by agricultural tax breaks?

Mostly I think public transit should be a public service. But I don't think it's a given that rich people's preferences should be subsidized just because they want to live in remote or suburban areas.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#252

Post by mqus » Mon, May 01, 2023, 10:33 PM UTC

camillomiller wrote: post #66

Berlin reporting: this is huge for anyone taking public transport. Monthly ticket for the AB area alone was way above 80/€/month for the city only. This is 49 for everything anywhere in Germany except for high speed long distance trains, flixbuses and flixtrains (the latter are private entities)

I thought the ticket was more like 63 Euros per Month, when paid yearly

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#253

Post by kspacewalk2 » Mon, May 01, 2023, 10:33 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #215

brd529 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monthly train pass on New Jersey Transit, LIRR and Metro North can get to above $300 once you are 20 miles from NYC.

About 40 miles outside of Boston I'd be around $500/month to have commuter rail plus subway per month.

They're essentially actively trying to dissuade talking public transit regionally. Curious choice.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#254

Post by generationP » Mon, May 01, 2023, 10:33 PM UTC

willio58 wrote: post #221

narcindin wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When blue states show me a viable public transportation network for a reasonable cost I will support them in my red state. Consider the CA high speed rail a PoC for the nation. Would you endorse copying that model? Is Chicago increasing its ridership/coverage (honest question).

Honestly, I couldn't tell you. I think the U.S. so far has failed horribly on this front. My note about blue states was simply that they are the only ones pushing for public transport like this. But will we ever see CA high-speed rail that's cheap and useful? I'm not sure. It's obvious that the real cost of things like highspeed rail come from environmental regulation and cost of land purchases from existing land own…

"Pushing for" is not a strategy. What I'm seeing in various blue US cities here is public transport falling into disuse in 2020, turning into a homeless encampment (often with the concomitant violence and theft) in 2021, and still not recovering in 2023. Philadelphia's SEPTA is still (2022) at half the 2019 ridership. It doesn't help that some lines got almost cancelled in 2020 (reduced to just a few trains per day), which likely caused a bunch of people to buy cars and not look back.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#255

Post by pjmlp » Mon, May 01, 2023, 10:34 PM UTC

zenlot wrote: post #69

Welcome to UK, where 40-55mins trains from neighbouring cities to London costs 50-110£ for a return journey and 6k+ for a yearly ticket. We apologize for a delay in your journey, this is due to staff shortage.

We also have our share of delays.

It is so bad, that there are excuse generator websites with what the DB usually uses, or people that collect them.

http://privatundfun.siteboard.org/t78f2005-Ausreden-Katalog-...

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#256

Post by moltar » Mon, May 01, 2023, 10:39 PM UTC

bahnkenner wrote: post #43

The biggest advantage of the new Germany-wide ticket is not the price, but rather that it simplifies things. This is a map of German public transit companies: [0]. I've heard the current fractured system be compared to the Holy Roman Empire. Every little region has its own ticketing system. If you arrive in a new city, you have to figure out how to buy local transit tickets, often with quite complicated rules (e.g.,…

You are so right! I was just in Munich and had some of the most confusing experience in any public transport system I’ve ever used. And I’ve seen many! It was so shocking. The UIs of the ticket machines are horrendously slow and confusing. Stop names are always in German even when switching languages. This, of course, doesn’t align with Google Maps half the time, as my GM is set to English.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#257

Post by andrewshadura » Mon, May 01, 2023, 10:39 PM UTC

josefx wrote: post #226

jtvjan wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think having tickets at all is antiquated. In the Netherlands, there are terminals at the stations you tap your bank card against to "check in". When you get off, you tap it again at that station and your card gets charged. Sometimes the conductor comes around with a device to make sure people have checked in. If you don't want your travel to be associated with your bank account, you can get a chip card which can b…

I have about half a dozen different ways to get from one train station to another, some with first and second class options. Just tapping in and out would not be sufficient to find out how much I have to pay or in some cases which company to reimburse.

For that reason before tapping in, you can select the correct class and discount in the app.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#258

Post by panick21_ » Mon, May 01, 2023, 10:40 PM UTC

cbmuser wrote: post #162

redprince wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not really controversial in Germany, and largely the case. Well... sort of, but the incentives are broken. Simplified version of what has happened so far: In 1994 the Deutsche Bundesbahn was fused with the eastern Reichbahn and converted into the Deutsche Bahn AG. The German state is the owner of this company but the corporation is run as it were publicly traded. Getting it onto the stock market at least in pa…

Japanese railway is all privatized and easily beats everything they have in Switzerland. It's not a matter of private vs. public.

Japanese railway don't easily beat everything in Switzerland. If you look at rural service Swiss service is often just as good or better and more punctual.

Japanese punctuality numbers are inflated because their high punctuality of their high speed trains that run on dedicated separated infrastructure. In fact, large reason that punctuality in Switzerland suffers is because international trains that mess up the schedule (looking at you Germany).

And unlike Japan Switzerland is also world leading in using railway cargo transport, that also has to share the same infrastructure.

But in general, its not just about public and private, that a simplified vision. Its something for politicians to talk about rather then talking about the actual details of the system.

While Japan is privately operated, its certainty still under public control.

In fact in Switzerland there are quite a few railway companies for both cargo and people using the same infrastructure. Some of them are semi-private or owned by local governments or a mix of other organizations. The Semi-Private Post office runs its own trains for example.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#259

Post by yarg » Mon, May 01, 2023, 10:40 PM UTC

wheels wrote: post #234

yarg wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that price point, does it even matter?

I've been confused in the last couple of threads related to this topic how responses like yours exist. Trying to be constructive, I'm going to float a theory: you live in Silicon Valley and that doesn't seem like much money? For a German pensioner, in many cases, this would represent more than 5% of post-rent living costs. For my girlfriend, a manager of a team of 16 people (in non-tech in Germany) it's more than 5%…

> I'm going to float a theory: you live in Silicon Valley and that doesn't seem like much money?

I'm a suicidal burn out trying to drag my mind back from oblivion, I sure as shit am not on silicon valley money.

Also:

> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

Your argument's a straw man, regardless of the fact that you're "trying to be constructive".

(And to be honest, the way you prefaced that statement had the feeling of "no offence, but...", it's a poor rhetorical practice.)

Germany has a long history of charging things at damned near administrative costs, 5% on transport just isn't a lot of money.

And also, 5% of "post-rent living costs"?

What's the percentage of overall income? Half of that? So low that your argument holds very little water.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#260

Post by panick21_ » Mon, May 01, 2023, 10:43 PM UTC

rippercushions wrote: post #52

ben_w wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public parks you don't sit in are still public goods; public litter bins are still public goods even if you never have anything to put into them; public roads are still a public good even if you don't own a vehicle. Likewise, if you want them to be, so is public transport. Though, here's a question: I don't think I've ever seen planes classified as public transport — is that just my observations being weird, or is th…

People usually distinguish between local and long-distance travel, nobody is arguing that bullet trains should be free and planes fall into the same category. The fact that long-distance highways tend to be free speaks more to politics than logic, and there are a few notable exceptions (eg Japan) where all expressways are tolled.

Highways are also tolled in Italy and I think France, its not that exceptional.

And in Switzerland for example you just pay a really high gas tax that funds the highway, plus you have to pay a one time fee and get a sticker, otherwise you are not allowed to drive on the highway.