I’m a doctor: Here’s what I found when I asked ChatGPT to diagnose my patients • Hacker News Board

Re: I’m a doctor: Here’s what I found when I asked ChatGPT to diagnose my patients

#251

Post by SanderNL » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 12:11 PM UTC

lumb63 wrote: post #219

The tail end of this article, where the author talks about how many more patients he could see in his life if he had AI assistance, made me realize that part of healthcare cannot be solved by AI. The goal is not to see more patients; the goal is to help more patients get better. For a lot of patients who are frustrated and have not had their problems validated and have been to many doctors and seen no results or poor…

"Seeing the patient" is an important step towards "patient getting better".

> have not had their problems validated and have been to many doctors and seen no results or poor results,

Also, being validated or not is not going to change with AI as you yourself state that seeing actual physical doctors is not helping in the cases you allude to.

I agree that having access to professionals that care about their profession is valuable, but that might be becoming a luxery we can no longer afford..

Who thought it was a good idea to have a fixed amount of medical students? Might be worth checking that out first.

Re: I’m a doctor: Here’s what I found when I asked ChatGPT to diagnose my patients

#252

Post by rscho » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 12:13 PM UTC

bboygravity wrote: post #250

surgeryres wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors are done? Can the chat bot take out a colon or gall bladder or fix an aneurysm? Hilarity.

No, but a GP can also not do those things and on top of that I've met some pretty terrible GP's :p So maybe some classes of doctors are done... Another thing to keep in mind: tons of people don't have access to any type of doctor at all (too expensive, too far away, queue too long, etc). Is current state of AI better or worse than no doctor at all? I don't know, but the answer is not obvious to me. In those cases AI…

A GP does a lot of hands-on work that is currently out of reach of a robot. And in addition, the interaction between the theoretical and practical parts of the job is quite complex.

Re: I’m a doctor: Here’s what I found when I asked ChatGPT to diagnose my patients

#253

Post by funcDropShadow » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 12:15 PM UTC

detrites wrote: post #240

MrPatan wrote: post #227

One complaint he has is "It doesn't know to ask the right questions". Well, the prompt was to give diagnoses, not questions. Ask GPT for the follow up questions first, then the diagnoses. This is fascinating in that, because now the machine speaks human, we subconsciously ascribe human agency to it. This guy was instictively treating it like a colleague, who would naturally ask follow up questions unprompted. But you…

One thing the article misses is doctors are not all equal. Some are freaking terrible. Others may be competent but susceptible to bad decisions when overworked. Others are simply great. How does ChatGPT fare against the whole group? For one, it can't become "overworked", so at least better in that regard. It may well be better than a terrible doctor too. Given malpractice is consistently a leading cause of death, it…

That's a horrendous claim.

> Given malpractice is consistently a leading cause of death

Can you back it up?

Re: I’m a doctor: Here’s what I found when I asked ChatGPT to diagnose my patients

#254

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 12:17 PM UTC

lumb63 wrote: post #219

The tail end of this article, where the author talks about how many more patients he could see in his life if he had AI assistance, made me realize that part of healthcare cannot be solved by AI. The goal is not to see more patients; the goal is to help more patients get better. For a lot of patients who are frustrated and have not had their problems validated and have been to many doctors and seen no results or poor…

> The goal is not to see more patients

Not when you're a doctor in the EU dealing with the shortages of socialized care where you have a limited amount of time to spend diagnosing a patient because there's dozens waiting in the queue. As a doctor you'd like to give everyone better care but you can't because you have too many people to see and too little time.

Doctors here are busy AF and sometimes misdiagnose you because they don't have time to look into every possibility of what you might be suffering from.

So maybe AI could help there, as in giving them some hints on things they might iss, as waiting for the governments to fix healthcare is like waiting for them to also fix climate change.

Re: I’m a doctor: Here’s what I found when I asked ChatGPT to diagnose my patients

#255

Post by iso1631 » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 12:19 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #254

lumb63 wrote: post #219

The tail end of this article, where the author talks about how many more patients he could see in his life if he had AI assistance, made me realize that part of healthcare cannot be solved by AI. The goal is not to see more patients; the goal is to help more patients get better. For a lot of patients who are frustrated and have not had their problems validated and have been to many doctors and seen no results or poor…

> The goal is not to see more patients Not when you're a doctor in the EU dealing with the shortages of socialized care where you have a limited amount of time to spend diagnosing a patient because there's dozens waiting in the queue. As a doctor you'd like to give everyone better care but you can't because you have too many people to see and too little time. Doctors here are busy AF and sometimes misdiagnose you bec…

Not when you're a doctor in the US dealing with the shortages of privitised car where you have a limited amount of patients who can afford your time

Re: I’m a doctor: Here’s what I found when I asked ChatGPT to diagnose my patients

#256

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 12:20 PM UTC

iso1631 wrote: post #255

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The goal is not to see more patients Not when you're a doctor in the EU dealing with the shortages of socialized care where you have a limited amount of time to spend diagnosing a patient because there's dozens waiting in the queue. As a doctor you'd like to give everyone better care but you can't because you have too many people to see and too little time. Doctors here are busy AF and sometimes misdiagnose you bec…

Not when you're a doctor in the US dealing with the shortages of privitised car where you have a limited amount of patients who can afford your time

How does the US doctor get impacted by that? Your cheap shot jab at an counter argument makes no sense. You probably mean the patience are dealing with the shortages, not the doctors.

Also, I'm only commenting on the EU system as that's the one I'm dealing with right now. Why do you feels the need to start a holy war on how the US system is worse? I have no expertise with the US system so I'm avoiding any comparisons with it.

Re: I’m a doctor: Here’s what I found when I asked ChatGPT to diagnose my patients

#257

Post by RandomLensman » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 12:20 PM UTC

lumb63 wrote: post #219

The tail end of this article, where the author talks about how many more patients he could see in his life if he had AI assistance, made me realize that part of healthcare cannot be solved by AI. The goal is not to see more patients; the goal is to help more patients get better. For a lot of patients who are frustrated and have not had their problems validated and have been to many doctors and seen no results or poor…

Some medical treatment and surgery is precisely there because the body isn't capable of healing itself at that stage. It might be able to heal itself after the treatment, but not before.

Re: I’m a doctor: Here’s what I found when I asked ChatGPT to diagnose my patients

#258

Post by simonh » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 12:20 PM UTC

dreamcompiler wrote: post #171

civilized wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I didn't predict is so many AI boosters being so miffed at regular folks pointing out the obvious: a half-working system may be tremendously exciting to AI enthusiasts, but it's not that useful to society. Recently we've had all these people complaining of moving goalposts, when in fact most people never had goalposts for AI in the first place, and certainly never had goalposts that remotely resembled those that…

A half-working system is cute and useful when it recommends a pizza place you might like. But the same system is a menace to society when you tell it to drive a car or prescribe a drug to treat an illness or decide a person's prison sentence or protect a perimeter with lethal force. It's absolutely amazing that so many AI scientists don't seem to understand this distinction.

Many, many AI scientists are very clearly aware of this problem. AI safety researchers have been predicting exactly the failure modes we see in the various incarnations of GPT for years. Issues like alignment and over-fitting are incredibly hard problems to solve, and there's still a lot that isn't known, but they are recognised in the field. The problem is business leaders, investors and governments are utterly clueless on any of this, hence the Google Bard and Microsoft Sydney debacles when they were rushed into the public view.

There is also the risk that the recent massive success of LLMs will bring a lot of excited bandwagon seekers into the field that don't have or appreciate the background on AI safety.

Re: I’m a doctor: Here’s what I found when I asked ChatGPT to diagnose my patients

#259

Post by RandomLensman » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 12:21 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #254

lumb63 wrote: post #219

The tail end of this article, where the author talks about how many more patients he could see in his life if he had AI assistance, made me realize that part of healthcare cannot be solved by AI. The goal is not to see more patients; the goal is to help more patients get better. For a lot of patients who are frustrated and have not had their problems validated and have been to many doctors and seen no results or poor…

> The goal is not to see more patients Not when you're a doctor in the EU dealing with the shortages of socialized care where you have a limited amount of time to spend diagnosing a patient because there's dozens waiting in the queue. As a doctor you'd like to give everyone better care but you can't because you have too many people to see and too little time. Doctors here are busy AF and sometimes misdiagnose you bec…

The EU has a very heterogenous healthcare landscape

Re: I’m a doctor: Here’s what I found when I asked ChatGPT to diagnose my patients

#260

Post by salawat » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 12:22 PM UTC

dzdt wrote: post #214

civilized wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I didn't predict is so many AI boosters being so miffed at regular folks pointing out the obvious: a half-working system may be tremendously exciting to AI enthusiasts, but it's not that useful to society. Recently we've had all these people complaining of moving goalposts, when in fact most people never had goalposts for AI in the first place, and certainly never had goalposts that remotely resembled those that…

The half-working AI is like 95% of the progress to a better-than-the-best-human AI.

And then what? Do you just think that humans are just going to cede that part of existence to that AI, in a fit of self-fulfilling prophecy? Cutting off the source of novel training data, thereby stagnating any progress of humanity at "we made a 1% better than the best human on a bad day AI once"?

This is the central conceit of AI maximalists; and tech maximalists as a whole imo. Someone wants something that fits in a box that everyone else must eventually delegate to. Given capitalism's focus on creating owned systems, and the tendency to centralize and maintain asymmetry of access to rent extract, this is a most concerning direction to keep pushing development in.

We should be building better people; but we've abandoned that in favor of making a better mantrap.