Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco • Hacker News Board

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#251

Post by syzarian » Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 11:41 AM UTC

harimau777 wrote: post #242

atdrummond wrote: post #158

Nothing will change. I was attacked in Christmas ‘21 in the Tenderloin, right after walking out of the KFC/Taco Bell on Eddy. Two cop cars drove by me and did nothing. It was only due to an ambulance finishing a run at Sutter and spotting me that I didn’t bleed out on the suitcase. I have video, proof of damages physical and financial, eyewitnesses and the info of the men who attacked me. SFPD will not arrest them be…

A major problem as I see it is a lack of nuanced policy. Currently in America it seems that you can either have police brutality and criminalized homelessness or you can have non-enforcement. What we really need is to prosecute crime but without tolerating police brutality or making laws designed to punish the poor.

You have pointed out the essential part of the policing problem. Anytime police are given genuine punishments for excessive force the entire department’s response is to stop doing their job.

Another problem I see is that in some cities (mine) people see racism at any attempt to alleviate the crime problem in lower income areas. I used to use the public transit system but it is now filled with drug users and people who enjoy terrorizing others. Police do nothing about it partially out of a fear of being called racist.

For whatever reason I get the sense that police are either extremely violent or extremely passive.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#252

Post by zenexer » Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 11:42 AM UTC

brightball wrote: post #217

atdrummond wrote: post #158

Nothing will change. I was attacked in Christmas ‘21 in the Tenderloin, right after walking out of the KFC/Taco Bell on Eddy. Two cop cars drove by me and did nothing. It was only due to an ambulance finishing a run at Sutter and spotting me that I didn’t bleed out on the suitcase. I have video, proof of damages physical and financial, eyewitnesses and the info of the men who attacked me. SFPD will not arrest them be…

What I don’t understand is why it’s up to the DA? If a citizen wants to press charges what allows a DA to just decide not to? Seems like the DA should be charged with obstruction of justice.

Citizens don’t get to decide whether to press criminal charges; only the government can decide that. They may take the victim’s request into consideration, but that’s the extent of it.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#253

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 11:42 AM UTC

harimau777 wrote: post #242

atdrummond wrote: post #158

Nothing will change. I was attacked in Christmas ‘21 in the Tenderloin, right after walking out of the KFC/Taco Bell on Eddy. Two cop cars drove by me and did nothing. It was only due to an ambulance finishing a run at Sutter and spotting me that I didn’t bleed out on the suitcase. I have video, proof of damages physical and financial, eyewitnesses and the info of the men who attacked me. SFPD will not arrest them be…

A major problem as I see it is a lack of nuanced policy. Currently in America it seems that you can either have police brutality and criminalized homelessness or you can have non-enforcement. What we really need is to prosecute crime but without tolerating police brutality or making laws designed to punish the poor.

[deleted]

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#254

Post by harimau777 » Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 11:44 AM UTC

glerk wrote: post #143

martin_a wrote: post #103

Can someone very briefly wrap this whole "SF is broken"-situation up for somebody from Europe? I only ever read that it's "because of the policies" and there are lots of rather disturbing videos about SF making its rounds on YouTube. But what exactly happened? Did they just remove all the police? Did they gave out free drugs to everybody? I'm not interested in blaming political parties, I just want to get a quick gra…

The truth is we are letting antisocial criminal trash walk freely around downtown and terrorize the local population. I think a lot of people live in their nice neighborhood bubble and have never stepped foot in FiDi or SOMA. Since I moved here, I have sen people break into cars (numerous times), fill suitcases with products from Target and Walgreens and leave without paying, casually smoke meth in a crowded bus, emp…

You are presenting two false dilemmas:

First, that addressing the core causes behind most crime (poverty, drugs, mental health, etc.) implies not enforcing the laws. We could address the root causes while also enforcing laws.

Second, that enforcing the laws requires extreme punishment like beatings.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#255

Post by pookha » Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 11:45 AM UTC

Fradow wrote: post #141

martin_a wrote: post #103

Can someone very briefly wrap this whole "SF is broken"-situation up for somebody from Europe? I only ever read that it's "because of the policies" and there are lots of rather disturbing videos about SF making its rounds on YouTube. But what exactly happened? Did they just remove all the police? Did they gave out free drugs to everybody? I'm not interested in blaming political parties, I just want to get a quick gra…

I'm from Europe too, but I've following what's been happening, so here's a very detached account of what happened. First, it's not a single reason but several going hand in hand. The main one, as far as I understand, is the sky-rocketing price of housing, coupled with little social safety net for which the US is well-known, produced a lot of homelessness that has not been addressed and ballooned. With that also came…

You're over thinking SF. SF is landlocked so there's always going to be steep housing costs...The real problem, as far as I can tell, is that homeless drug addicts are given free money by CAAP and have ample access to hard drugs. Anybody who's seen what hard-drugs do to a person or a family can attest that this is NOT good. You have probably seen something similar in Germany (I have) but the difference is in Germany they actively enforce the criminal code. You can't walk into an Aldi in Koln with a trash bag and make off with a hundred dollars in random goods...In SF this is happening. Which requires another conversation on America's far-left and their response to crime and their views of an unjust system. That being said there's a toxic environment in SF and it's not changing anytime soon.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#256

Post by rdtsc » Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 11:45 AM UTC

atdrummond wrote: post #158

Nothing will change. I was attacked in Christmas ‘21 in the Tenderloin, right after walking out of the KFC/Taco Bell on Eddy. Two cop cars drove by me and did nothing. It was only due to an ambulance finishing a run at Sutter and spotting me that I didn’t bleed out on the suitcase. I have video, proof of damages physical and financial, eyewitnesses and the info of the men who attacked me. SFPD will not arrest them be…

> SFPD will not arrest them because Boudin refused to prosecute

It was explained to me a few times that it wasn’t supposed to be an issue. The police will just as eagerly do their job and arrest criminals. But that never made sense to me. What happened in your case seems a lot more likely. What would be the point in going through all the trouble arresting a suspect if there is a good chance charges will just be dropped.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#257

Post by syzarian » Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 11:46 AM UTC

rswerve wrote: post #249

atdrummond wrote: post #158

Nothing will change. I was attacked in Christmas ‘21 in the Tenderloin, right after walking out of the KFC/Taco Bell on Eddy. Two cop cars drove by me and did nothing. It was only due to an ambulance finishing a run at Sutter and spotting me that I didn’t bleed out on the suitcase. I have video, proof of damages physical and financial, eyewitnesses and the info of the men who attacked me. SFPD will not arrest them be…

I don’t know your case, but it’s also possible that the police won’t make an arrest because police in America tend to go on low-key strike when a liberal prosecutor is elected, and then loudly proclaim that the DA is undermining the rule of law. This article is about a different kind of “police pullback,” but the underlying phenomenon—cops won’t work when they’re challenged—is the same. https://www.propublica.org/art…

This has happened in Minneapolis. Since George Floyd police in Minneapolis have effectively stopped doing their job. When one of their own is treated by the law like anyone else would be they retaliate by refusing to work. Police feel entitled to be free of genuine consequence for their actions. For example, police commit more domestic violence on average than non-police and rarely get arrested for it.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#258

Post by sva_ » Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 11:52 AM UTC

glerk wrote: post #143

martin_a wrote: post #103

Can someone very briefly wrap this whole "SF is broken"-situation up for somebody from Europe? I only ever read that it's "because of the policies" and there are lots of rather disturbing videos about SF making its rounds on YouTube. But what exactly happened? Did they just remove all the police? Did they gave out free drugs to everybody? I'm not interested in blaming political parties, I just want to get a quick gra…

The truth is we are letting antisocial criminal trash walk freely around downtown and terrorize the local population. I think a lot of people live in their nice neighborhood bubble and have never stepped foot in FiDi or SOMA. Since I moved here, I have sen people break into cars (numerous times), fill suitcases with products from Target and Walgreens and leave without paying, casually smoke meth in a crowded bus, emp…

I think there is a large intersection between the sets "homeless people" and "antisocial nutcases" though. I've been to SF once, and the amount of crazy shit I've seen in just two days was staggering.

But there was also a lot of good stuff.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#259

Post by peyton » Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 11:52 AM UTC

rswerve wrote: post #249

atdrummond wrote: post #158

Nothing will change. I was attacked in Christmas ‘21 in the Tenderloin, right after walking out of the KFC/Taco Bell on Eddy. Two cop cars drove by me and did nothing. It was only due to an ambulance finishing a run at Sutter and spotting me that I didn’t bleed out on the suitcase. I have video, proof of damages physical and financial, eyewitnesses and the info of the men who attacked me. SFPD will not arrest them be…

I don’t know your case, but it’s also possible that the police won’t make an arrest because police in America tend to go on low-key strike when a liberal prosecutor is elected, and then loudly proclaim that the DA is undermining the rule of law. This article is about a different kind of “police pullback,” but the underlying phenomenon—cops won’t work when they’re challenged—is the same. https://www.propublica.org/art…

It’s great somebody wrote an article that says that. But let’s not pretend that’s what’s going on in San Francisco.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#260

Post by fallingknife » Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 11:52 AM UTC

rswerve wrote: post #249

atdrummond wrote: post #158

Nothing will change. I was attacked in Christmas ‘21 in the Tenderloin, right after walking out of the KFC/Taco Bell on Eddy. Two cop cars drove by me and did nothing. It was only due to an ambulance finishing a run at Sutter and spotting me that I didn’t bleed out on the suitcase. I have video, proof of damages physical and financial, eyewitnesses and the info of the men who attacked me. SFPD will not arrest them be…

I don’t know your case, but it’s also possible that the police won’t make an arrest because police in America tend to go on low-key strike when a liberal prosecutor is elected, and then loudly proclaim that the DA is undermining the rule of law. This article is about a different kind of “police pullback,” but the underlying phenomenon—cops won’t work when they’re challenged—is the same. https://www.propublica.org/art…

Given that in SF the liberal prosecutor was, in fact, undermining the rule of law and de facto legalized stealing, I'm inclined to side with the cops here. Cops don't prevent crime, they only catch criminals after the fact. If the DA doesn't charge them, then all arresting does is give them a day off. I wouldn't arrest people either if I knew they wouldn't be charged.