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Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

nato.int

251–260 of 521 posts

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#251
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their actions speak pretty loudly. I’m asking, what is Russia trying to say?

> I’m asking, what is Russia trying to say? Stop the expansion. Watch the video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ58Yv6kP44

Simply don't protect yourself from invasion by Russia if you are a potential target for Russian invasion, and Russia will not be forced to invade (at least for now.)

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#253
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we have to put up with Russia's expansions due to „grievances“ that some other expansions were denied or questioned? It's funny how Russia always pretend to be a victim when it's the aggressor. God forbid someone endangers „rightfully conquested“ territories :D

> Why put up with Russia expansion Why put up with NATO expansion? Russia's expansion is also totally defensive! wink-wink > It's funny how Russia always pretend to be a victim It's ironic how Russia is always assumed to be a passive unresponsive corpse with no concerns or perspective and memory of its own. I wonder if it's even hypothetically possible for people to try to fairly grasp that perspective, otherwise Eur…

> It's ironic how Russia is always assumed to be a passive unresponsive corpse with no concerns or perspective and memory of its own.

Indeed, and apologists of Russia often take this position: in their mind, Russia has no will and no ambitions, and only reacts to what the US is doing. Whatever they do is always the fault of americans and never a manifestation of their own will.

Here in Eastern Europe the perspective is a bit different: Russia is a failed state that never developed a free and open civil society, and instead fluctuates between soft and hard authoritarianism. Their dictators tend to develop imperialist delusions from time to time and that makes them a direct threat to their neighbors and that's why everyone is so keen on building international cooperation to set up an unified front against Russian invasions. The ground under my feet has seen Russian invasions, raping, pillaging every 1-2 generations for as long as Russians have existed.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#254
This is not just great news for a Finland, but also for my own Norway, and the rest of Scandinavia. Even before this was finalized there was already work on closer cooperation and integration between our air forces. Give it some time and we will see all of us getting more out of defense spending, by not having to duplicate everything and combine buying contracts. When Sweden finally joins later is going to get even better. Attacking any state in Scandinavia just got a lot harder, and was imo. the whole point of this.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#255

So, this is mostly a US-centric forum, but I wonder what is the take on this from the perspective of a Finnish person. Is there any controversy or concerns of becoming a foothold for future conflicts? This whole thing has been dragging on for sometime now, had the opinions shifted over time?

Well the PM who nursed this just lost the election. But I suspect most Fins agree with the decision.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#256
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I would be somewhat willing to believe is Russia got rid of own Neonazi first. Which is not what happening, Russia has quite strong movement. It is also quite racist country, socially-culturally very much like nazi were - having a thing against gays, celebrating violence, all of that.

Same as in Ukraine. I'm Ukrainian and I lived there for 27 years. There are very little Ukrainians who don't have Russian relatives, because they all had sex between each other when USSR was still a thing. Many Ukrainians have one of their parents born in Russia. The culture in both countries is, more or less, the same.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#257

Meanwhile, Sweden's NATO application is blocked by Turkey because former Peshmerga fighter Amineh Kakabaveh happened to become very powerful in the chaotic Swedish parliament a few years ago. The story: https://www.outlookindia.com/international/former-kurdish-re...

That's a simplification, and there are a bunch of other reasons.

The dictator Erdogan wanting to pressure Sweden and NATO for instance.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#258
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true. Though it's good to remember the Soviet Union did even worse things to Russia.

Eh, Moscow always ran the USSR. That’s a bit like lamenting that how messed up an abusers knuckles got after hitting it on folks faces for so long.

> Eh, Moscow always ran the USSR

The people that were sitting in Moscow however were from all around the Union.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it weird and a direct provocation, Listen Andrey. Russia has invaded its neighboring countries repeatedly during recent history. I think that's more than enough to explain why anyone near Russia would like to be in a defensive pact. I also don't think anyone should be concerned whether Russia finds that "weird" or "a provocation". At all. > the ambitions are not different from the ambitions of Russia The amb…

Which countries had Russia invaded prior to the conflict that began early 2007?

Finland, twice. My grand-grandfather got grenade shrapnel from Russians pouring over the border to murder men, rape women, and steal children.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#260
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nukes are useless tactically. Especially when you can't provide CBRN uniforms and training to all your troops.

That's a stretch. Imagine Russia could use their nukes without retaliation. They could have completely destroyed every military base and city in Ukraine before the invasion, along with the people's will to fight. Or just used the threat of doing so to take Ukraine piece by piece.

The consequences of using nukes are an inherent part of using them. We might as well imagine they could use their tanks without maintenance or supply lines, or use their infantry without providing any training.
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