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Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

reuters.com

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Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#251

Post by jefftk »

pavlov wrote: post #192
joefigura wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem like the SEC has actually said what Coinbase is doing that is a security, or published regulations on how to determine which digital assets are securities and which are not "The SEC staff told us they have identified potential violations of securities law, but little more. We asked the SEC specifically to identify which assets on our platforms they believe may be securities, and they declined to do so…

Regulations and court precedents about what’s a security have been published since the 1930s. Lots of people have tried to work around it. Crypto isn’t the first attempt to create pseudo-securities where the layers of ownership and control are obfuscated. The rules aren’t really that complicated — it’s just that crypto people have a hard time facing the fact that practically everything in crypto meets the definition…

The IRS gives lots of detailed guidance [1] on how to file your taxes, including specifically for cryptocurrency [2]. The SEC has given very little guidance here, mostly just repeating their normal non-cryptocurrency guidance in a way that wouldn't be informative to a securities lawyer [3], and especially hasn't addressed the way their current rules are incompatible with crypto. That Etherium, for example, has existed for a decade and become as big as it is without the SEC deciding whether it's a security makes it very hard for anyone to plan.

(I don't own any crypto and haven't ever; generally anti-crypto.)

[1] https://www.irs.gov/publications

[2] https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...

[3] https://www.sec.gov/files/dlt-framework.pdf

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#252

Post by skywhopper »

detrites wrote: post #207
lottin wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so much protecting you, but ensuring a fair playing ground. If crypto is "finance", then it has to be subject to financial regulations.

The definition of what "finance" is seems somewhat arbitrary doesn't it? Person A: spends $1k per year on lottery tickets and doesn't win anything. Person B: puts $1k into BTC at the years high and sells at the bottom getting back $200. Both people had the goal of making a double percentage return. One had an arguably significantly higher chance of doing that. One person was able to buy their lottery tickets at the c…

You’re just making things up now. Person B doesn’t have to “file a ream of identify documents” or keep watch on regulations to put $1k into Bitcoin.

As for taxes, you owe them on lottery winnings as well. And for any non trivial amount, you will pay them.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#253

Post by saiya-jin »

roenxi wrote: post #193
lelanthran wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. > In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. > But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that…

He probably would. I have access to a bunch of good investment opportunities that US citizens don't have, because they are "protected" from accidentally making money. I have a stack of little pamphlets outlining interesting investment deals in Australia all labelled with "don't show this to anyone in the US, if you are a US person this isn't for you and we ask that you don't read it". This isn't crypto, only standard…

Ah yes, the good ol' trick old as scammers themselves, investment pamphlets with secret sauces, magically unavailable those holding US passports because some made up reasons (or actual regulatory concerns which should interest you if you are smart).

Also, investing in shares, competing for shares, my friend I don't think you understand all this mumbo jumbo you wrote

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#254

Post by skywhopper »

ETH_start wrote: post #244
soco wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if we compared the market size of the Pokemon cards trading with the crypto trading, and also the risks of one compared to the other, we might get a hint why one is in the spotlights while the other not. Not all problems can and have to be addressed at once, so having a priority list to apply your limited resources makes only sense.

If the SEC began interpreting securities laws as designating Pokemon card, wine and luxury watches securities, Congress would change securities laws. And that's why they don't. They're exploiting the novelty of cryptocurrency to give it this designation without a broad backlash. As a matter of law though, the case for being a security is no stronger cryptocurrencies than for Pokemon cards.

You realize that the “securities” at issue here aren’t just ETH and Bitcoin, right? They are packaged financial instruments. “Stake this crypto and we’ll pay you a fixed rate of return.” That’s a bond, or a bank account. Either way, Coinbase isn’t following the rules.

https://www.coinbase.com/earn

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#255

Post by bilekas »

> Staking is a process in which cryptocurrency holders volunteer to take part in validating transactions on the blockchain.

For me the key word here is `volunteer`. I'm no 'crypto bro' by any means, but can someone tell me why this is against SEC rules ? Or if it explicitly even is ?

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#256

Post by harold_b »

Alex3917 wrote: post #39
yokem55 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is something of a he said/she said between Coinbase and the SEC. But the Judge in the Voyager bankruptcy case had similar concerns about the clarity provided by the SEC - https://twitter.com/BillHughesDC/status/1636069735006699523

> Well, it is something of a he said/she said between Coinbase and the SEC. Not really. The law has been exactly the same since the 1940s. Apparently though Coinbase has decided to go all in on SBF's strategy of pretending to be too dumb to understand the law. Coinbase arguing that they should be allowed to sell illegal unregistered securities because the SEC said they could sell securities is like CVS arguing that s…

[dead]

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#257

Post by ceejayoz »

ETH_start wrote: post #180
lelanthran wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. > In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. > But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that…

A huge number of crypto projects never advertised their tokens as an investment, and explicitly and repeatedly stated that they are not investments and should not be expected to appreciate, yet the SEC still charged them with promoting an unregistered security.

I get scam emails that say "this is not a scam!", too.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#258

Post by hungryforcodes »

ignoramous wrote: post #241
matheusmoreira wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "cryptocurrency" concept seems to be based on a mistrust of government-issued currency and a mistrust of government more generally. It certainly was. Some coins like monero still are all about that. Most of the cryptocurrency space turned into stocks though. They even reinvented banks.

tbf, recreating banks but without regulation is one way to go about orchestrating once-in-a-generation wealth transfer from... one LP to another.

What does that even mean?

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#259

Post by throw1234651234 »

thepasswordis wrote: post #148

I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a p…

It protects you from investing in private companies like SpaceX IF YOU ARE POOR too, you are welcome!

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#260

Post by ashwagary »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #22
overthrow wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, Gensler has outright said that “everything else other than bitcoin is a security.”[1] There's no chance Coinbase isn't aware of this. I don't know what they hope to accomplish by pretending otherwise. [1]: https://cryptoslate.com/sec-chair-gensler-confirms-everythin...

Why is Bitcoin not a security but if I fork Bitcoin it is a security?

>Yep, Gensler has outright said that “everything else other than bitcoin is a security.

>Why is Bitcoin not a security but if I fork Bitcoin it is a security?

You are right. Gensler was either misquoted or mispoke.

If somebody forks Bitcoin, distributes the majority of coins for free and renounces control; then random people (not connected to the founder) start voluntarily improving and giving it value, it probably wouldnt be a security.

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