Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 565 posts

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#251

Post by matwood »

mouse_ wrote: post #148
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re going to get a bias in here because a lot of folks are STEM focused / high achieving high anxiety types :)

I guarantee most of these "high achieving high anxiety types" live with significantly less anxiety than customer service reps/bag handlers/food service workers.

I've done waiting/service type jobs. For me, the stress during the work period was way higher than anything in my software/business jobs. But, every night when I got off work, the stress was immediately gone. That shift was over, and the tomorrow really was new day. With my office jobs the max stress is lower, but it also never really goes away.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#252

Post by thinking4real »

ergonaught wrote: post #213

Having seen our kids pass through this timeframe into adulthood, experiencing various forms of "mental illness" along the way, the main "obvious" factors that were different from our childhoods were ... a) social media, and b) schools pressuring them to commit to major life decisions before they were even allowed to drive a car, and never letting up, and c) the magnitude of student loans necessary to comply with that…

[dead]

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#253

Post by shrimp_emoji »

purpleblue wrote: post #147
nluken wrote: post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

My son is 10 and is naturally accelerated across many subjects (12th grade proficiency in ELA, 9th grade proficiency in Math, talented in music, writing, etc). We have been actively indoctrinating our kids with the idea that college is not the be-all-end-all, that they should NOT apply for Ivy schools, 3rd tier schools are very good and if they want to go abroad or even eschew college altogether, we will support them…

To be a good parent is to sacrifice your child's future like a pawn to save the queen of your own moral grandstanding.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#254

Post by strangattractor »

coredog64 wrote: post #192
nixass wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this is because school, especially college, and particularly exams, is about as high-stakes as most people's lives ever get, so they look back at that time as peak-anxiety. Think about it: you're being evaluated and the result of that evaluation shapes the next step in the pipeline, and ultimately the trajectory of the rest of your life! Well, at least that's what the university officials, professors, you…

Something to consider is that many European countries aggressively track students in conjunction with that free/cheap college. As a consequence, failing during early education can put them onto the vocational track much earlier than you’d see for a U.S. student.

We need to stop knocking vocational programs in the US IMO. College has a learning modality that is not well suited for everyone. I wish I could find the Youtube video but there is a German Manufacturer of CNC machines in the US. Their apprentice program looked excellent/fun. The students were building electric bikes and motors - learning undergraduate level electronics in a hands one fashion - using CAD - then milling the parts out on a multimillion dollar machines. Mostly learning by doing. Getting paid to do so and would likely have a job when finished.

In the US there is a perception that the vocational or trades route mean failure. We tend to think of trades as an expense, dangerous or someone that works on an assembly line. Some people just get bored sitting in a classroom.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#255

Post by tarkin2 »

d_sem wrote: post #11

Having exited my teen years just before the smartphones became ubiquitous in the US, I got the opportunity to watch externally how social media and other similar systems effected the day-to-day of my younger siblings through their teen years. It was not positive. Maybe someone younger can attest to my observations: - more localized isolation as kids spent a higher % of their attention in internet communities - less c…

Shared experiences. These help you learn to socialise: you can talk about what you watched and heard last night on television with a wide and local social group. You feel closer to your community through having shared things to discuss and learn the skills to operate within a social group. Without this you feel isolated which leads to depression.

It seems to me, with modern technology, things are shared amongst people to create shared experiences and discussions but these are not people within your local physical community--leading, again, to isolation and the dangers therein.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#256

Post by e40 »

nradov wrote: post #199
e40 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the deteriorating job market when they get out. My son has struggled/struggles with this. I 100% understand and I would, too, if I were in his position. I compare his situation to mine and they are night and day. The prevailing sentiment when I was in college: get a degree (in anything) and you'll be OK if you want to work hard.

What deteriorating job market? Despite some recent high profile tech industry layoffs, the US unemployment rate is 3.4%. There are jobs available for those who want to work. They may have to move. https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/yellen-you-dont-have-rece... A recent survey showed that most college students seriously overestimate their earnings potential. There is a mismatch in expectations. Students graduating wit…

Yeah, that was badly phrased. I was replying too quickly.

Yes, the job market has roared back in the last couple of years, but before that it was cooler. But, I should have mentioned other things besides jobs. The world is a pretty bleak place, in a lot of ways. Yeah, the cold war was always hovering about, but it was not really something that my peers really worried about.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#257

Post by wonderwonder »

nradov wrote: post #239
wonderwonder wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's why the upper middle class demanded lock downs and blue collar didn't. I think the driver was financial stability. Upper middle class likely has a nice emergency fund and could do their job from home. Essentially a nice vacation. Blue collar workers got to choose between welfare and starving.

The blue-collar construction workers and farmers that I know all thought the lockdowns were stupid and ignored the rules. Financial stability or lack thereof was not the reason.

The blue collar workers reward for their scar induced mindset was to go back to work. White collar workers in large part were able to parlay the lock down into permanent work from home.

Perhaps it's not scars and just the ability to make lemonade when given lemons?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#258

Post by danenania »

wutbrodo wrote: post #32
d_sem wrote: post #11

Having exited my teen years just before the smartphones became ubiquitous in the US, I got the opportunity to watch externally how social media and other similar systems effected the day-to-day of my younger siblings through their teen years. It was not positive. Maybe someone younger can attest to my observations: - more localized isolation as kids spent a higher % of their attention in internet communities - less c…

An additional one I noticed with my female cousins was that a lot of fun was sucked out of high school girls' social expression/reconnaissance. On the recon side, gossiping is a fun bonding activity, but scrolling through snaps/reels is relative drudgery. On the performance side, "be pretty and vivacious at fun social events" is no longer sufficient without obsessively managing your profile's brand. This doesn't only…

On that note, I wonder how much of these results are due to social media specifically and how much is caused by addiction to screens more generally, and the resulting insomnia, lack of exercise/time outside, and lack of human connection.

I know that in some respects, social media is uniquely bad, but perhaps the bulk of the problem is just being hooked on anything that makes you look at a phone or a screen all the time and neglect other aspects of life. Social media just happens to be the most popular thing currently to be hooked on.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#259

Post by strawpeople »

faeriechangling wrote: post #115
strawpeople wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are seeing things like declines in lifespans and increases in suicide, but I don't think mental illness is increasingly nearly as much as the stats would lead you to believe at face value. This just seems like a flat out contradiction. How would suicides ‘skyrocket’ if mental illness is not increasing. Agreed that 2012 may be irrelevant and we may not know the cause.

It's not a contradiction, I'm saying that an underlying increase in mental illness plausibly explains some of the effect, but I'm unconvinced it explains the entire effect.

What could explain the increase in suicides if not mental illness?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#260

Post by MisterPea »

loeg wrote: post #245
carabiner wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40% of high school students don't go to college (of any type). Of those, only a tiny portion are focused on elite universities. Many are just going to Long Beach State, University of Redlands and other 4 year schools that you've never heard of. They have lax admissions. Among adult Americans, only a third have bachelors degrees. Certainly the high pressure scholastic environment of certain high schools is not common.

> Among adult Americans, only a third have bachelors degrees Sure, but this is very skewed by older Americans having low rates of degrees. A lot more than 33% of current American 24 year-olds have Bachelors degrees. And that more accurately reflects the expectations on teenagers than low rates of degrees among Boomers.

For 4-year college, the enrollment number is 31% for 2020. Total enrollment including 2-year is 40%. The total number of actual graduates is probably slightly less than this.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cpb/college-enrol...

Post reply on HN