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Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

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Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#251

Post by montecarl »

Acutulus wrote: post #241
grafporno wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you've got over-the-counter opiates in the US (I assume it's the US)? What?

Speaking for the US, yes indeed. Loperamide is technically an opioid and available OTC, though that's rarely a sought after compound unless one is in dire straits. Codeine is available with a pharmacist's approval alone in my state. So while it may not technically OTC by that definition (or is, I don't know how OTC is defined), it can be had without a prescription by visiting a participating pharmacy and simply reque…

For clarity, loperamide, sold under the brand name Imodium, is an anti diarrhea medication. It is an opioid; however, it does not readily cross the blood-brain barrier. It only acts on the opioid receptors in the large intestine and slows the movement of food. In very high concentrations it may get into the brain.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#252

Post by StanislavPetrov »

jfengel wrote: post #12

The worst thing about being smart is how easy it is to talk yourself into believing just about anything. After all, you make really good arguments. EA appeals to exactly that kind of really-smart-person who is perfectly capable of convincing themselves that they're always right about everything. And from there, you can justify all kinds of terrible things. Once that happens, it can easily spiral out from there. Peopl…

>The worst thing about being smart is how easy it is to talk yourself into believing just about anything. After all, you make really good arguments.

>EA appeals to exactly that kind of really-smart-person who is perfectly capable of convincing themselves that they're always right about everything.

I think that just as big of an issue is that a lot of these EA people are not really smart. They are generally financially successful, which many people confuse with being really smart. This is especially true if that financial success came as a result of being really good at something (like programming), that doesn't necessarily translate into being really good at other things, or being really smart in general. This effect is compounded when other people are constantly stoking their egos due to the aforementioned professional and financial success. This is not to say that wealthy people who go into EA are stupid (they are very likely intelligent) but they just may not be as smart as they believe they are, or as smart as other people tell them they may be.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#253

Post by jojobas »

camillomiller wrote: post #205

EA can be the scum of Earth and I wouldn’t be surprised that this kind of group could be as it sounds cultish and self-aggrandizing. But conflating their wrongdoings right away with the refusal of monogamy and the practice of polyamory is so annoying and conservative and plainly wrong. It also implies that these practices are one step removed from harassment, which is infuriating. It’s exactly like conflating homosex…

In fact male homosexuals are about 1̶0̶x̶ 2x more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexuals.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1556756/

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#254

Post by chipsa »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #214
camillomiller wrote: post #205

EA can be the scum of Earth and I wouldn’t be surprised that this kind of group could be as it sounds cultish and self-aggrandizing. But conflating their wrongdoings right away with the refusal of monogamy and the practice of polyamory is so annoying and conservative and plainly wrong. It also implies that these practices are one step removed from harassment, which is infuriating. It’s exactly like conflating homosex…

In a perfect world I agree with you, but at some point you have to ask yourself why non-monogamy keeps going out of style after periods of acceptance. Even with a religion justifying it, Mormons gave up polygamy! I think it's because polygamous relationships lend themselves to manipulative and abusive behavior more easily than monogamous relationships do. Over time that increase in probability of negative outcomes tu…

Mormons gave it up because the US Government forced them to. It was a requirement for statehood for Utah.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#255

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

olliecornelia wrote: post #23
pdonis wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> arguments for polyamory are just that, arguments Which have nothing whatever to do with effective altruism. So it's perfectly reasonable for a person who came to a gathering expecting to talk about effective altruism, to be uncomfortable, to say the least, when she finds herself getting proselytized about polyamory.

It’s never who you want to be polyamorous who’s polyamorous.

Correction: The people you want to be polyamorous don’t need to go around recruiting partners.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#256

Post by dragonwriter »

jojobas wrote: post #253
camillomiller wrote: post #205

EA can be the scum of Earth and I wouldn’t be surprised that this kind of group could be as it sounds cultish and self-aggrandizing. But conflating their wrongdoings right away with the refusal of monogamy and the practice of polyamory is so annoying and conservative and plainly wrong. It also implies that these practices are one step removed from harassment, which is infuriating. It’s exactly like conflating homosex…

In fact male homosexuals are about 1̶0̶x̶ 2x more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexuals. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1556756/

> In fact male homosexuals are about 10x more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexuals.

That's not what your source says, it says that the heterosexual:homosexual ratio is 11:1 among those it found to be pedophiles, which is lower than the 20:1 ratio in the general population, implying a higher (but less than 2×, not about 10×) likelihood of pedophiles among homosexuals than heterosexuals.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#257

Post by ianburrell »

yamtaddle wrote: post #58
gruez wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not that that bothers me so much as the fact that many effective altruists do it so badly. [...] But effective altruists are as likely to talk about colonizing Mars as they are to talk about global warming. Are they doing it badly, or are you not understanding their arguments? AFAIK effective altruists want to colonize mars on x-risk grounds, which would explain why they want to prioritize that over global warm…

I've yet to see an argument for colonizing Mars for this purpose, that wouldn't be a better argument if the goal were instead "build robust, distributed bunkers on earth, and pay families to live in them part-time so there's always someone there". Cheaper, and more effective. Most plausible post-apocalyptic Earths would be far easier to live on than Mars. The remaining threats that wouldn't also be pretty likely to t…

One big problem with Mars is that requires technology to live on. Most of the risks are civilization ending events not extinction level events. When civilization fails, on Earth the survivors bang rocks together, on Mars they die. It turns civilization ending into extinction.

One big question is if can make Mars civilization that would survive Earth collapse. It is possible that there are some things, like biological samples or advanced technology that have to come from mother planet. Mars will likely take a long time to become self-sufficient and until then it isn’t a backup. The easier self-sufficiency is, the less Mars is needed as backup.

The final thing is that colonizing Mars could introduce risks. It would involve developing technology that makes disaster more likely, like advanced AI, genetic engineering, or moving asteroids in space. Or could be adding a place for conflict leading to Earth-Mars war that destroys both planets.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#258

Post by skybrian »

Sakos wrote: post #51
supersour wrote: post #48

> EA is diffuse and deliberately amorphous; anybody who wants to can call themselves an EA... But with no official leadership structure, no roster of who is and isn’t in the movement, and no formal process for dealing with complaints, Wise argues, it’s hard to gauge how common such issues are within EA compared to broader society. This passage reminded me of this article: https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm…

I think it's bizarre EA seems to be a movement with power structures. I always just thought EA was a philosophy and based on that I felt it was an interesting idea. I don't have to worry about sexual harassment when I'm considering Plato or Stoicism. Why is it a thing with EA?

Many industry events have had problems with sexual harassment. Young people living together in group houses (for example, fraternities) often have problems too.

So the problem in this case seems to be for young people who want to connect at in-person events. If you never go to events, don't want an EA job, and don't want to live with other EA people, then I don't think you can be affected?

So I'm not sure it's a problem with the movement as a philosophy, as with holding lots of loosely moderated events, having parties, having group houses, and so on. That is, this pretty intense socializing seems high risk for this sort of thing.

What other institution does this remind me of? College. College sex scandals tend not to make the philosophy department look bad unless a teacher is involved, but that certainly happens.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#259

Post by throwanem »

Acutulus wrote: post #241
grafporno wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you've got over-the-counter opiates in the US (I assume it's the US)? What?

Speaking for the US, yes indeed. Loperamide is technically an opioid and available OTC, though that's rarely a sought after compound unless one is in dire straits. Codeine is available with a pharmacist's approval alone in my state. So while it may not technically OTC by that definition (or is, I don't know how OTC is defined), it can be had without a prescription by visiting a participating pharmacy and simply reque…

"A pharmacist's approval" is a prescription, just one that happens to be written by the same person who fills it. So no, not OTC, which specifically refers to medications you can get without a prescription.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#260

Post by Acutulus »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #245
Acutulus wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking for the US, yes indeed. Loperamide is technically an opioid and available OTC, though that's rarely a sought after compound unless one is in dire straits. Codeine is available with a pharmacist's approval alone in my state. So while it may not technically OTC by that definition (or is, I don't know how OTC is defined), it can be had without a prescription by visiting a participating pharmacy and simply reque…

Codeine + cough syrup is so popular in Texas that it spawned an entire subculture dedicated to its use. See DJ Screw in Houston ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_Screw ). Lest you think this is no longer the case - “lean”, as it is known by Houstonites (due to your tendency to lean on things while under the influence) was a major plot point of a recent mostly autobiographical Netflix series centered around Houston…

Vice released an excellent short piece on Houstonian screw & slab culture years back. Might still be on youtube! It was an excellent piece at the time, but I haven't seen it in quite a while.
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