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Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

pta.gov.pk

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Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#251

Post by LarryMullins »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #193
LarryMullins wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drawing a downward slope is a fallacy when you have a single datapoint and you're just asserting that the datapoint exists as part of a trend. If you have more than a single datapoint, then claiming to see a trend is no longer fallacious. In the real world, there is rarely a single datapoint. In the case of religions demanding censorship, there is A LOT of data.

The real world is not a math formula. A trend can just as quickly plateau, spike, or plummet. That's the point, that none of us can predict the next step, regardless how much we think we can. The fallacy is proclaiming that a specific chain of events will occur due to one action. Can it happen? Sure. Will it happen with 100% certainty? Of course not, so don't pretend like it will, regardless how many datapoints exist…

When you draw a trend line that goes up: Yass science is awesome, progress is inevitable!

When you draw a trend line that goes down: Um sweety, that's a heckin fallacy.

> The fallacy is proclaiming that a specific chain of events will occur due to one action.

As I said myself and you rejected, the fallacy is asserting a trend from a single data point. I guess you just like hearing it in your own words more.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#252

Post by babypuncher »

robertlagrant wrote: post #239
babypuncher wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I say "no religion" I don't mean "state mandated atheism". I also don't think organized faith of any kind would have done anything to solve the problems with the Soviet Union. Especially when they were one despotic atheist state among countless despotic theocracies.

Fair enough. Separation of church and state has been progressing over the last thousand years. I surmised the only modern thing you could've been referring to was state atheism. Did you mean something different to both of those things? > Especially when they were one despotic atheist state among countless despotic theocracies. Not countless. They had plenty of democracies around them as well. And even if they hadn't,…

Separation of church and state is exactly what I'm talking about. I consider it modern, even though the idea is now pretty old. Throughout most of human history, religion has been a key part of the power structure of most civilizations. In that context, the ideas brought forth and during the Age of Enlightenment are still very "modern".

There are also still many countries that have yet to adopt this ideal, and even within many developed democracies there are still forces that wish for us to regress.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#253

Post by sasattack »

34611 wrote: post #172
cactusplant7374 wrote: post #43

Twitter appears to have complied with removing the BBC documentary tweets for users in India. So some tweets are not available in India. It does look like Wikipedia is ahead of Twitter in the free speech absolutist game if it prefers being blocked to compliance.

[flagged]

It's funny how Wikipedia's top editor is a literal CIA agent but people like you stay this stuff

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#254

Post by _-david-_ »

ddevault wrote: post #241
_-david-_ wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The death penalty is abhorrent and indefensible Believe it or not, but some places don't have the resources to hold people in jail for decades. If there was a murderer and the place had no way to actually keep the murderer away from the general population, what would you recommend? Just ask the murderer to not murder again?

The problem is that you cannot ascertain with certainty that someone is, in fact, a murderer. Countries with the death penalty will always execute innocent people. Roughly 5% of convicted persons are estimated to be innocent, and an execution makes the possibility of appeal or exoneration moot. At least 190 people in the United States have been sentenced to death and were later found to be innocent.

I don't think anybody is denying that innocent people will be killed by the death penalty.

Which is worse: 100 innocent people being killed by the death penalty or 100 innocent people getting killed by murderers? This is the calculation that many underdeveloped countries have to look at.

Allowing a murderer to live in a country that doesn't have the means to support them will lead to additional suffering of the prisoner (due to less resources), additional suffering of those not in prison (due to additional taxes), and an additional risk to additional murders by the murderer (if they kill other prisoners, guards or escape).

It is easy for people in the first world to say we don't have the need to have the death penalty, but to tell the poorest they are too stupid to know better is kind of arrogant.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#255

Post by ddevault »

_-david-_ wrote: post #254
ddevault wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you cannot ascertain with certainty that someone is, in fact, a murderer. Countries with the death penalty will always execute innocent people. Roughly 5% of convicted persons are estimated to be innocent, and an execution makes the possibility of appeal or exoneration moot. At least 190 people in the United States have been sentenced to death and were later found to be innocent.

I don't think anybody is denying that innocent people will be killed by the death penalty. Which is worse: 100 innocent people being killed by the death penalty or 100 innocent people getting killed by murderers? This is the calculation that many underdeveloped countries have to look at. Allowing a murderer to live in a country that doesn't have the means to support them will lead to additional suffering of the priso…

Other comments addressed your (ridiculous) argument so that I don't have to, I encourage you to read them instead.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#256

Post by mynameisvlad »

LarryMullins wrote: post #251
mynameisvlad wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real world is not a math formula. A trend can just as quickly plateau, spike, or plummet. That's the point, that none of us can predict the next step, regardless how much we think we can. The fallacy is proclaiming that a specific chain of events will occur due to one action. Can it happen? Sure. Will it happen with 100% certainty? Of course not, so don't pretend like it will, regardless how many datapoints exist…

When you draw a trend line that goes up: Yass science is awesome, progress is inevitable! When you draw a trend line that goes down: Um sweety, that's a heckin fallacy. > The fallacy is proclaiming that a specific chain of events will occur due to one action. As I said myself and you rejected, the fallacy is asserting a trend from a single data point. I guess you just like hearing it in your own words more.

I mean, that’s just straight up not the definition of the fallacy, so I guess if you can redefine it to whatever you like, then sure, you’re definitely right.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#257

Post by _-david-_ »

ddevault wrote: post #255
_-david-_ wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anybody is denying that innocent people will be killed by the death penalty. Which is worse: 100 innocent people being killed by the death penalty or 100 innocent people getting killed by murderers? This is the calculation that many underdeveloped countries have to look at. Allowing a murderer to live in a country that doesn't have the means to support them will lead to additional suffering of the priso…

Other comments addressed your (ridiculous) argument so that I don't have to, I encourage you to read them instead.

I encourage you to talk to some people in extremely undeveloped countries about the problems with detaining people for decades.

I would especially recommend talking to people in the most remote areas of the underdeveloped countries. They literally are unable to keep people in prison.

Over the past few decades, most areas have been solving these issues, but there are still a few areas where there is no alternative.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#259

Post by dang »

MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #95
hallqv wrote: post #90

[flagged]

Each offshoot Abrahamic cult is worse than the last.

Religious flamewar is not welcome here and we ban accounts that post like this, so please don't post like this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#260

Post by dang »

hulitu wrote: post #229
erenyeager wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@dang this need to be flagged for inflammatory content.

Are you new to HN ? Or haven't you read it in the last years ?

I don't know what you're referring to but we moderate such posts every time we see them.
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