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1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

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Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#251

Post by watwut »

newaccount74 wrote: post #86
nolok wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you mean is your original comment could just have much said "exercice results in weight loss unless accompanied by a corresponding change in diet to increase calories intake", aka exercise alone as a change results in weight loss.

People get hungry after exercise and automatically eat more to compensate for the spent calories. If you start exercising, but don't watch your nutrition, you will most likely not lose weight.

First, this heavily depends on how exactly you exercised and on your actual diet. Bulking makes you hungry. Mild cardio or runs makes you less hungry and less likely to just eat crap.

Second, your body is rebuilding and healing itself from micro injuries, so eat proteins if you are hungry at that time. That does not mean your dinner then has to be exactly the same as before, you just have to shift when and what you eat.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#252

Post by gadders »

stockboss wrote: post #222
gadders wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the saying goes, you can't out-train a bad diet (unless you're a complete outlier like Eddie Hall or Micheal Phelps or DK Metcalf). This is a good podcast on the topic as well: https://www.artofmanliness.com/health-fitness/health/new-sci...

I don't think Eddie Hall is a good example of being able to "out-train a bad diet". He eats and trains for one very specific purpose - to get stronger. His physique reflects that. He's pretty fat, don't let his visible abs fool you.

I've met him, when he was 3 times UK strongest man before winning WSM. He most definitely was not fit for daily life but was in good shape for strongman.

By saying "out-train a bad diet" I mean he needs his reputed 12k calories to build and repair his muscle mass (obviously some went to fat as well). The people on "America's Fattest People" (or whatever) don't need 12k calories a day and get (the bad kind of) huge as a result.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#253

Post by foobarian »

criley2 wrote: post #170
dmix wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without making your calorie intake less than your expenditure you will not loose weight I've asked on HN a couple times in the past for citations that support this meme and haven't yet found a good source on this. The connection between caloric restriction and weight loss isn't as straight forward as people seem to think, despite that being the standard correlation pushed since the 1950s. Calories seems to be the c…

You are very right to question this! While the thermodynamics aren't assailable, it turns out that the calorie system is in fact quite fallable and bad! There's a lot of good material on why, I like this talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJQxadvsmEQ But simply put: - Our system for measuring how much "calorie" is in any given food is extremely problematic and unrelated to how the body captures energy - Our system…

The thing about the calorie system is that it's extremely simple and consistent. You could get into more advanced ways to count the calories that look at the type of food, and how body captures it, etc etc but that would be an even bigger mess than modern "dietary science."

Currently the calorie count at least gives me an upper bound, and at least it's on the box and applies no matter who looks at it. How would you do better?

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#254

Post by this_user »

itsoktocry wrote: post #156
AmericanChopper wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HIT (High intensity training, what is discussed in the article) training achieves the same effects as much longer endurance training at much shorter times Certainly not the same effect. HIT training doesn’t improve respiratory or cardiovascular fitness as effectively as continuous training does, and it doesn’t condition the muscles for endurance as effectively as continuous training does either. I don’t know much a…

> Here’s a video made by Eliud Kipchoge‘s athletics team that talks about the benefit of long runs: Is there any science here, or just anecdata from elite athletes, who are often terrible judges of their talent? It's really hard to judge this stuff.

You can read up on Dr. Stephen Seiler's research (or watch his lectures on YT). He is one of the leading academics in the field of endurance. His results clearly demonstrate that a "polarised" approach with at least 80% low intensity work yields superior results to more high intensity approaches even in athletes who only train for a limited amount of time each week (3-4h).

That is not to say that HIT doesn't work, and doing something is certainly better than doing nothing in any case, but if you want to maximise the training effect w.r.t. endurance for a given time budget, doing mostly LIT is the better option.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#255

Post by gadders »

mister_mister wrote: post #169
gadders wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the saying goes, you can't out-train a bad diet (unless you're a complete outlier like Eddie Hall or Micheal Phelps or DK Metcalf). This is a good podcast on the topic as well: https://www.artofmanliness.com/health-fitness/health/new-sci...

Reading about the diet of DK Metcalf that is Low carb, Intermittent fasting, with plenty of vegetables is according to the latest science. Eddie Hall has goal based diets, Normal people wouldn't be able to process the amount of food he eats, can't be healthy to eat that much. But at the same time it's clearly working for him. Just saying genetics does a disservice to them.

I think they are genetic outliers, but they are also outliers in the stresses they are putting on their body. They genuinely need ~12k calories per day (Hall and Phelps).

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#256

Post by User23 »

tvrg wrote: post #228
dmix wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without making your calorie intake less than your expenditure you will not loose weight I've asked on HN a couple times in the past for citations that support this meme and haven't yet found a good source on this. The connection between caloric restriction and weight loss isn't as straight forward as people seem to think, despite that being the standard correlation pushed since the 1950s. Calories seems to be the c…

I have the same question: People often calculate with calories as if it is really simple math. But - honest question - does my body really have to suck up every calorie or could it excrete some calories in the toilet and also vary that amount depending on my caloric intake? For example, I have read somewhere that you urinate superfluous proteins - which also have calories. Also, if I'm hungry I get cold. I might put…

Metabolic ward studies have proven that the body will excrete excess protein via the kidneys. Theoretically a glycogenesis to lipogenesis pathway might conceivably exist, but under controlled conditions it observably doesn’t.

Something similar will happen with excess ethanol consumption. Your body will preferentially use ethanol for immediate energy needs, but there is no pathway to store it as fat. However any fat or carbohydrates in the diet will immediately undergo lipogenesis while the ethanol is metabolized.

The end result is that it’s physiologically impossible to gain body fat on a diet of lean protein and wine or spirits. However that’s a rather unhealthy diet otherwise so I wouldn’t recommend going all in on the piss out the protein plan.

It’s good to know though that if you’re taking an alcohol cheat day then stay away from beer and mixed drinks as well as fat and carbs all day and until the next morning. Instead eat something like lean chicken or fish with near zero calorie vegetables like lettuce or cucumbers or what have you.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#257

Post by PragmaticPulp »

petesergeant wrote: post #23

It's 8 minutes, not one minute The people in the study were out of shape to start with The improved measures were insulin sensitivity index, peak oxygen uptake, and "skeletal muscle mitochondrial content" No change in body mass In conclusion, if you're out of shape, you can improve a limited number of fitness measures just as much doing 3x8 minutes of higher intensity exercise as much 3×45m less intense exercise over…

> The people in the study were out of shape to start with

> In conclusion, if you're out of shape, you can improve a limited number of fitness measures

While this isn’t going to make athletes change their exercise programs, it’s a great reminder that if you’re sedentary you can get significant health improvements by doing literally any exercise at all. Some times dramatic improvements.

Exercise doesn’t have to be complicated. Doing anything is significantly better than being sedentary.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#258

Post by watwut »

foobarian wrote: post #250
watwut wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linking conservation of energy is just non argument. It has nothing to do with anything, because our bodies are not simple theoretical machine.

I suppose you have evidence of bodies producing more energy than input? Do tell...

We piss and shit out calories. Our temperature goes up and down. Bacterias in our guts eat calories, making us absorb more or less. There are multiple health issues that will make you loose or gain weight quickly with zero change in lifestyle or food. Oh, and we become tired, weak and passive which makes us spend less energy then if we are feel good.

The assumption that body resembles simple closed physical model is absurd.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#259

Post by bluGill »

tvrg wrote: post #228
dmix wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without making your calorie intake less than your expenditure you will not loose weight I've asked on HN a couple times in the past for citations that support this meme and haven't yet found a good source on this. The connection between caloric restriction and weight loss isn't as straight forward as people seem to think, despite that being the standard correlation pushed since the 1950s. Calories seems to be the c…

I have the same question: People often calculate with calories as if it is really simple math. But - honest question - does my body really have to suck up every calorie or could it excrete some calories in the toilet and also vary that amount depending on my caloric intake? For example, I have read somewhere that you urinate superfluous proteins - which also have calories. Also, if I'm hungry I get cold. I might put…

Not only excrement, you also have to factor in sweat - your body can "choose" how much to burn into heat, and then use sweat to keep your body temperature normal if it is creating more heat than needed. This is normal, but I'm not sure if there is anything you can do to control it.

Re: 1min high-intensity exercise 3x a week improves fitness as much as 3x aerobics (2016)

#260

Post by foobarian »

watwut wrote: post #258
foobarian wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose you have evidence of bodies producing more energy than input? Do tell...

We piss and shit out calories. Our temperature goes up and down. Bacterias in our guts eat calories, making us absorb more or less. There are multiple health issues that will make you loose or gain weight quickly with zero change in lifestyle or food. Oh, and we become tired, weak and passive which makes us spend less energy then if we are feel good. The assumption that body resembles simple closed physical model is…

OK then let's lock a bunch of us in a vacuum thermos like in that "DEVS" show, have them eat a reasonable diet of 2k calories a day, have them walk on hamster wheels and hope they will produce > 2k calories worth of energy. Scale out, profit! Spoiler alert, this will not work.
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